Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Are 75 going to be replaced by 80?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I just read on the Swedish Tesla forum that someone who had been in one of the stores had been told that the 75 kWh battery is on it's way out and that it will be replaced by 80 kWh battery. He wasn't told anything about the timeline so it could be tomorrow as they take away 90 kWh battery or it will be later this year when 2170 batteries starts to come to Model S and Model X.

This also maid me think about the 2170 cells, as I remember it was going to start deliver to Model S and X 6-9 month after the production had started but then I started to search after the article I found that I remember wrong, this Electrek write last July.

At the Gigafactory event yesterday, Elon Musk said that the first vehicle battery packs will come out of the factory in about 6 months and will be used as development battery pack for the Model 3.

In 8 to 9 months, battery packs for the Model S and X will also rollout for validation and for production in the following months.

Tesla’s plan for Gigafactory vehicle battery pack rollout and why it matters

This should mean that Tesla have already started to test 2170 cells in Model S and Model X if they manage to keep there timeline and maybe soon is ready to start selling them with 2170 cells.

Of course this is speculation and I won't take it for granted until I see it in the design studio, the people at Tesla stores have been misinform before.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dragonxt
that would be nice, but wouldn't elon/tesla be more focused on 2170's for the Model 3 right now?
It depends on the production, if they can ramp up the production of 2170 cells faster then Model 3 and Tesla energy need then they can use them for Model S and Model X. Then they also need to keep demand up for Model S and X while they start to go throw the long list of reservation holders for Model 3. The move to drop the price of Model S 75 so mush for some time ago could probably have maid some go for a Model S instead and if they now upgrade to 80 kWh without higher the price they can get even more sales now instead of later.
 
I was thinking about the 2170s being introduced when they take away the 90s but if there's some big advantage (weight reduction=longer distance or faster charging) I would've expected Elon to talk about it at the shareholder meeting and then have the config with the new cells go live that day. Even if there is no real benefit other than a better chemistry I would've thought he would've at least brought it up if its available 3 days after the meeting. Who doesn't love more anti-selling of model 3!?
 
It makes perfect sense to replace the 75 kWh pack with an 80 kWh when the Model S and X switch to 2170 cells. They are going to redesign the entire pack anyway. They might as well pick a capacity that makes more sense. Why? The Model S 75D has 259 miles rated range. The Model 3 75D is expected to have 297 miles rated range based on my calculation (***). Because both cars have the exact same battery capacity, this re-emphasises that the Model 3 is more efficient and it encourages comparisons between the two cars. This is not very good because the Model 3 75D has 15% more range, is 15% more efficient, costs 15% less to charge and supercharge sessions will take 15% less time etc etc.

Interestingly, the new 80 kWh pack should have about the same capacity as the 85 kWh pack from 2012, 2013 and 2014 because Tesla has switched to a more honest advertisement method in recent years. The 85 had 81.5 kWh actual capacity (*). They should have called it 80 kWh. When Model S was released in 2012, they had the 40, the 60 and they should have the 80 but I guess overly-optimistic advertisement was more popular at that time at Tesla so they called it an 85.

But they don't do this anymore. The 75 kWh has exactly 75.0 kWh actual capacity (*) and the 100 kWh pack has 102.4 kWh (**). Of course what this means is, the new Model S 80D will have more range than the Model S 85D because the new packs will also weigh less because the 2170 cells are expected have a different chemistry with higher energy density. My best guess is 278 mi EPA rated range for the Model S 80D.

(*) Click here for source.
(**) Click here for source.
(***) See cell AF18 here.
 
Last edited:
It makes perfect sense to replace the 75 kWh pack with an 80 kWh when the Model S and X switch to 2170 cells. They are going to redesign the entire pack anyway. They might as well pick a capacity that makes more sense. Why? The Model S 75D has 259 miles rated range. The Model 3 75D is expected to have 297 miles rated range based on my calculation (***). Because both cars have the exact same battery capacity, this re-emphasises that the Model 3 is more efficient and it encourages comparisons between the two cars. This is not very good because the Model 3 75D has 15% more range, is 15% more efficient, costs 15% less to charge and supercharge sessions will take 15% less time etc etc.
...
You assume that the 2170 batteries in the Model-3 will charge at the same rate as the 18650. I'm predicting Elon to announce V3 Supercharging at the end of September, which is expected to double the charging speed. You read it here first. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: MXWing
I wonder if this could mean a 80 upgradable to 100, a la 60 to 75?
I don't think so, the 60 was a big mistake from Tesla where they didn't get paid for the extra battery that they sensed with a lot of cars. Sure, a lot of buyers bought it then they lower the price but I believe that was lower then the extra cost.

My car is going into production very soon, I hope we don't miss this! What's the link to this thread in the swedish forum?

(Also, 100th post)



I hope that would be the case, but 20 kwh seems like a big gap.

TeslaClubSweden.se • Visa tråd - 75 blir 80?

You assume that the 2170 batteries in the Model-3 will charge at the same rate as the 18650. I'm predicting Elon to announce V3 Supercharging at the end of September, which is expected to double the charging speed. You read it here first. :)
V3 supercharger in September would be nice and it would fit well with the Semi as it really need to have higher charging rates for a semi truck. To make sure that they don't get a lot of cancellations it would be good if they start to deliver cars with the new battery pack before the event.
 
I don't think so, the 60 was a big mistake from Tesla where they didn't get paid for the extra battery that they sensed with a lot of cars. Sure, a lot of buyers bought it then they lower the price but I believe that was lower then the extra cost.

The software limited batteries were a demand lever. Tesla needed to keep selling cars and Model S was no longer moving at the speed they needed.

I agree its return is unlikely, unless there is some demand disaster again.
 
that would be nice, but wouldn't elon/tesla be more focused on 2170's for the Model 3 right now?

It doesn't matter in what car the new cells go. They are better and cheaper to make and help make Tesla more profit. Tesla needs to make the Model S/X more competitive or else the sales will drop dramatically. They won't have their top model cars running with the old cells while the Model 3 has better batteries.
 
It doesn't matter in what car the new cells go. They are better and cheaper to make and help make Tesla more profit. Tesla needs to make the Model S/X more competitive or else the sales will drop dramatically. They won't have their top model cars running with the old cells while the Model 3 has better batteries.

I guess ramp-up and transition could be an issue, though. There might be a period of certain number of months that Tesla can't transition S/X to 2170's. For example commitments to buy old cells?

In that sense bringing back the old 85 kWh battery (or a slightly tuned variant) as 80 kWh to liven up the low-end of S/X might be possible too. It would separate the S/X Standard from the Model 3 Premium while 2170's are still going to Model 3 only.

Just speculating.

Of course if the transition to 2170's is quicker than this, then all bets are off.
 
I guess ramp-up and transition could be an issue, though. There might be a period of certain number of months that Tesla can't transition S/X to 2170's. For example commitments to buy old cells?

Tesla has been planning the new cell production for many years now with Panasonic as a partner. It's not a sudden change. They are moving to the new cells together.
 
It makes perfect sense to replace the 75 kWh pack with an 80 kWh when the Model S and X switch to 2170 cells. They are going to redesign the entire pack anyway. They might as well pick a capacity that makes more sense. Why? The Model S 75D has 259 miles rated range. The Model 3 75D is expected to have 297 miles rated range based on my calculation (***). Because both cars have the exact same battery capacity, this re-emphasises that the Model 3 is more efficient and it encourages comparisons between the two cars. This is not very good because the Model 3 75D has 15% more range, is 15% more efficient, costs 15% less to charge and supercharge sessions will take 15% less time etc etc.

Interestingly, the new 80 kWh pack should have about the same capacity as the 85 kWh pack from 2012, 2013 and 2014 because Tesla has switched to a more honest advertisement method in recent years. The 85 had 81.5 kWh actual capacity (*). They should have called it 80 kWh. When Model S was released in 2012, they had the 40, the 60 and they should have the 80 but I guess overly-optimistic advertisement was more popular at that time at Tesla so they called it an 85.

But they don't do this anymore. The 75 kWh has exactly 75.0 kWh actual capacity (*) and the 100 kWh pack has 102.4 kWh (**). Of course what this means is, the new Model S 80D will have more range than the Model S 85D because the new packs will also weigh less because the 2170 cells are expected have a different chemistry with higher energy density. My best guess is 278 mi EPA rated range for the Model S 80D.

(*) Click here for source.
(**) Click here for source.
(***) See cell AF18 here.
I agree, but there may be another possibility. Consider that the 80kWh S and 75kWh 3 might have essentially the same pack, say 78 kWh, underrated (not software limited) for the 3 and "rounded up" for the S and X.
 
this was just published fyi: Tesla Model S, X has no plans to use 2170 battery cells, says Musk

might put to bed some of the speculation as to when we get new batteries...
Elon Musk has contradicted what he stated earlier at the last earnings call. He said they would roll out by end of year. IMO, what this means is that Tesla has not scheduled the 2170 cell roll-out yet, and they're not divulging any further information to reduce the risk customers delaying their order (Osbourne effect).
 
  • Like
Reactions: PJFW8 and David99