TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Are Dual Motor 3 rear motors basically RWD 3 rejects?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Atari2600, Aug 2, 2018.

  1. Atari2600

    Atari2600 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    Messages:
    78
    Location:
    Earth
    Given the P3 and RWD 3 have the same rear output I have been wondering if the standard dual motor cars are getting rejects that didn't make the cut for RWD or P series 3. What do you think?
     
    • Funny x 5
    • Disagree x 4
    • Like x 1
  2. PessimiStick

    PessimiStick Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    OH
    All the motors are effectively the same, with Ps being the best of the bunch (but we have no real data about how much the binning actually means in real terms -- I don't expect it's much of a difference). The limits on the AWD car are pretty much entirely software.
     
    • Like x 1
  3. C141medic

    C141medic Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    486
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Or they’re only software limited?
     
  4. Trevor B

    Trevor B Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    612
    Location:
    CA
    Yes .. they are rejects. Ditto for all the doors and other components :rolleyes:
     
    • Funny x 15
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  5. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,153
    Location:
    Oregon
    We just don't know. At least once person thinks that Tesla uses a custom version of the invertor that has a few of the MOSFETs removed which would reduce the cost and power output.

    Someone needs to get an AWD car and wreck it so that @Ingineer can get it at auction cheap and pull it apart for us. ;)
     
    • Like x 3
  6. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,713
    Location:
    Austin
    no
    What they are doing is the reverse of that.
    The motor design and manufacturing has the ability to produce motors that perform better, so they're selecting those for P cars.
    If you want to label that as "everything else is a reject", that's your prerogative.
    Personally I don't have that negative slant.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,153
    Location:
    Oregon
    It is possible Tesla is triple binning the motors:

    1) Highest performing to the Model 3 P
    2) OK performing to the Model 3 RWD
    3) Lowest performing to the Model 3 AWD

    For the rear motors the EPA specs show 211kW for the P and RWD and only 188 kW for the AWD. Why/how is the AWD 11% lower? Is it the lowest performing motors, just software limited, or are MOSFETs removed from the inverter. We.Just.Don't.Know.Yet.
     
    • Like x 4
  8. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Messages:
    929
    Location:
    San Diego
    All motors are equal, but some motors are more equal than others.
     
    • Funny x 10
    • Like x 4
    • Love x 2
  9. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    15,118
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    I think that is untrue, and frankly ridiculous. If you think that is the case you need to provide evidence to back up such an assertion. WIthout evidence, your post is nonsense.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Disagree x 1
    • Love x 1
  10. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Messages:
    929
    Location:
    San Diego
    Elon tweeted that they're putting the best motors in the Performance version. Logically that means they're putting the worst motors in the LR and AWD.
    I doubt there's much difference though. The only evidence other than his tweet is that the AWD has lower rated output power.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  11. Atari2600

    Atari2600 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    Messages:
    78
    Location:
    Earth
    I have no idea. I am just looking at the possibilities given the RWD 3 and P 3 have the same rear motor power. If the P3 rear motor had a higher KW rating then the RWD it would make more since they are binning.

    IMHO taking a motor that is running at 211 KW then putting it in another model and running it at max 211 KW doesn't really sound like binning to me. Binning normally results in a motor with a different rating and well, the standard dual motor is the one not like the others. (I have a dual motor on order so I think I am entitled to wonder about it)

    I'm going off the assumption that EPA information is correct.
     
    • Love x 1
  12. Thomas Edison

    Thomas Edison Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,031
    Location:
    Portland-ish
    Give me 3 months.
     
    • Funny x 7
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  13. smalltownguy

    smalltownguy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2017
    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Iowa
    The dollar cheeseburgers at McDonalds are rejected quarterpounders.

    Now you know.
     
    • Funny x 16
    • Like x 1
  14. djgarrett21

    djgarrett21 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Utah
    Motors are designed to spec. There is always a tolerance on what is considered acceptable, performance is going to be no different. If a motor is put on a vehicle it has met the specifications and is rated to operate within it's designed limits.

    Going on the assumption that the motors in all model 3 vehicles are the same design, I don't see any way that the RWD and AWD-P motors are "better" than the non-P AWD cars. Non-P cars are software limited, that is the only way that the power rating for the rear motor is the same on RWD and AWD-P. Having a common drive unit design/architecture across all variants makes the most sense from a cost perspective.
     
  15. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    16,627
    I think that's what I mentioned like a week ago... ;)
     
  16. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    3,701
    Location:
    USA
    The FROZEN patties are the dollar cheeseburgers.
     
  17. brendon1970

    brendon1970 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2017
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Newcastle, New South Wales
    Probably overthinking this a little. You buy a car to a spec, that’s what you get.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. TurnFast

    TurnFast Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2018
    Messages:
    142
    Location:
    Redmond
    Fair, so far all of Tesla's stated 0-60 to times have been proven to be pretty accurate, how Tesla accomplishes it those times is probably irrelevant.

    I think the endless speculation about the motors is due to:
    1) most of us don't have our cars yet and so have nothing to do late at night but speculate about things we have almost no info.
    2) people that ordered a PAWD want to feel that there are some hardware differences that make their car intrinsically better than the others rather than having the same car with some different feature flags/bits set.
    3) people that ordered an AWD like the idea that the AWD and PAWD are physically the same and there might some day be a paid performance option for them.

    I'm personally in camps 1&3, can't wait for ingineer to tear appart a AWD and PAWD to finally put this to bed. Though even if they are identical, there are plenty of reasons why tesla would never offer a AWD upgrade anyway, they'd probably rather you trade it in and buy a new PAWD.
     
    • Like x 2
  19. privater

    privater 2016 Model S and 2017 Model 3 owner

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    221
    Location:
    CA
    I’d be more worried about panel gap/fit and finish since they’ve all built in the same tent by the same workers.

    Hope the have higher standards in QC with such $15000 premiums.

    Last time I visited Fremont Factory, I didn’t notice they store motors in different racks. They’ve just sit there waiting to be installed.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. diamond.g

    diamond.g Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,442
    Location:
    Moyock, NC
    It would be great if someone could also answer the VIN question. If the motors are different doesn't the VIN have to reflect that? Because as it stands right now there is no differentiation for the Model 3 where there is one for the S and X.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC