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Are Electric Cars Really Cleaner (No, according to NBC News)

Discussion in 'News' started by markb1, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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  2. ABVA

    ABVA Member

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    He did not have any solid facts, that is why he ends the video with "May not be cleaner". What individuals like these need to realize is that, Electricity generations has options of using Solar, Wind, etc. OIL HAS NONE.
     
  3. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    #3 liuping, Apr 25, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
    Even without facts, he still says right up front "Are Electric car really cleaner than conventional cars? Not Really". The "May" is lost on most people, since he's already said they are not in the beginning.
     
  4. derekt75

    derekt75 Member

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    Dear NBCNews,

    If the idea behind “30 seconds to know” is that NBC is going to remove all sources and numbers and then provide a factual but biased piece, I think NBCNews’s reputation is going to be damaged.

    The amount of CO2 per mile emitted by an electric car powered by different electric grids is well known, as is the CO2 per mile emitted by a typical ICE. (Electric car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
    A typical EV in California emits 1/4th the CO2 of a typical gasoline car (more EVs are sold in CA than any other state), and even an EV on the dirtiest American grid still emits only 66% of the CO2 of an average gasoline car.
    To state that it “may be worse” is true if you’re comparing one of the dirtiest grids in America with one of the cleanest gasoline cars, but I feel that the “may be worse” is a biased statement.

    The only EV logos or cars pictured were from Tesla, so spending 1/4th of the piece talking about rare earth metals that Tesla doesn’t use also seems to be biased.

    I did not see a place to provide comments after the video, so it seems like the whole thing is a way for NBC to sell an 18 second ad while displaying 30 seconds of material that requires no research and has no accountability.

    In short, the entire 30 second piece seemed to come from either a biased viewpoint or an ignorant one. I now feel that I should not trust any “information” provided during any “30 seconds to know” pieces.

    Thanks for listening,
    Derek
     
  5. dmckinstry

    dmckinstry Model S - U.S. P - #1649

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  6. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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  7. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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  8. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    #8 liuping, Apr 25, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
    He says 68% comes from fossil fuels, not coal specifically. While true, it ignores the fact that natural gas plants are far less polluting than coal (or ICE cars).

    In California in 2012 7.4% of the power came from coal, but 43% came from natural gas. San Diego had even less Coal power at 2.3% (http://www.energy.ca.gov/sb1305/labels/2012_labels/IOUs/San_Diego_Gas_and_Electric_2012.pdf).
     
  9. Reykjavik

    Reykjavik Member

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    To do an honest comparison, we have to consider where the energy comes from for both the EV and the ICE, in use and production. In the EV, the energy can come from anywhere, but in the current grid it comes from a combination of coal (which is about as clean as the small ICE), natural gas (which, while dirty, is far cleaner than an ICE), and nuclear, hydro, wind, and air (which are all far cleaner than anything else). The ICE comes from oil, which is running out and dirty.

    In production, both use the same supply of energy (a combination of oil for mining and transportation equipement, and the grid for production), but the EV does require more energy.

    This means that if you clean up the grid, the ICE gets marginally cleaner. On the other hand, if you clean up the grid, the EV becomes downright sparkly. And the kicker is this: oil doesn't come out of the ground ready to put into a gas tank. You have to refine it, and it takes a lot of energy.

    Ultimately, EVs are in practice, on the current grid, slightly cleaner than hybrids, which are slightly cleaner than the very best ICE. On top of that EVs have the potential to be clean enough to allow a society to survive for billions of years. With an ICE, we are looking at a few centuries at best.
     
  10. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    He even mentioned nuclear as one of the dirty sources of energy for an EV. Is this guy even an engineer or have any scientific background? Very embarrassing for the IEEE. I would have thought they would hold themselves to higher standards.
     
  11. Calvin.K

    Calvin.K Member

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  12. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    It's one thing to give a 30second platform to this guy but they should have someone else give a 30 second response with some accurate information. Not all issues have two valid sides to them that deserve equal time but this certainly does.
     
  13. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    Even if the video does not provide any hard facts or data due to the nature of it's 30 second length, the "experts" should be required to provide them in a supplemental link. Otherwise, it's ripe for spreading all sorts of false information, not just EVs.
     
  14. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Agreed. No in depth conversation can happen in 30 seconds but as is so often in news people throw things out with no sources and no facts to back up their argument.
     
  15. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I tried to send in a comment on the NBC news page but when I click submit, nothing happens.
     
  16. Bradleybang

    Bradleybang Member

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    Silent protest of NBC news. I will not be watching your programming and will not buy any Xerox products you advertised for this 30 seconds of crap news.
     
  17. aventineavenue

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    Believe it or not, this expert is a professional electrical engineer and the Executive Editor of IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers) Spectrum, the organization's flagship magazine.

    Armed with the fact that this Ivy League educated engineer is not giving the accurate information (such as the the knowledge that AC induction motors like Tesla and several others use no rare earth metals, something every EE should know) or analysis about either the current crop of electric cars nor where they will by all projections, go in the future, we have to ask ourselves...is Glenn Zorpette incompetent or being deliberately deceptive? And then we must facilitate action.

    My initial suggestion would be for Tesla Motors to sue both NBC and Glenn for libel (defamation) specifically on the third false assertion in the video, and then use the media exposure to expound upon the the misleading aspects of the other two points as well.
     
  18. aventineavenue

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    Here's where anyone can send an actually email, as the we form is dodgy:

    [email protected]

    I sent a stronger message warning of possible legal action, as Tesla's motors do not contain any rare earths.



     
  19. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    #20 SwedishAdvocate, Apr 27, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
    Thanks much for the e-mail-address. Have sent them an e-mail. Can’t post a copy here though, since it contains wording that violates forum rules.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There is at least one more ”30 SECONDS to KNOW”-piece that is completely and utterly dead wrong. Can’t post which one here though, since then a mod will most probably have to move it off to one of the locked quarantine-threads…

    So, this ”30 SECONDS to [email protected] just seems to be littered with even more utterly biased propaganda BS.
     

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