Are hand tools really necessary when changing tires?

[mspohr]

But that still requires me to jack and unjack each corner. That's what I already do.

If all you're doing is rotating tires, just get two jacks and put one on each pad... jack up... change tires... release... done.
Fiddling with jack stands takes more time and is more expensive just buying a second jack... KISS.

 

[HankLloydRight]

If all you're doing is rotating tires, just get two jacks and put one on each pad... jack up... change tires... release... done.
Fiddling with jack stands takes more time and is more expensive just buying a second jack... KISS.

Again, I'm not rotating tires, I'm swapping winter/summer wheels. Even still, under your scenario, I'm *still* jacking each corner of the car individually. That's what I'm trying to avoid, because in reality, it's all four corners. And jacking up and down each corner is a PIA, if I can find a way to jack up the entire side of the car with one jack procedure instead of two for each side.

 

[tga]

Exactly.

I've been researching small, portable car lifts just for changing wheels, light-duty type lifts. I found two:

EZCarLift: EZ CAR LIFT - FREE-STANDING USE-ANYWHERE CAR LIFT! FAST. SAFE. STRONG.EASY. I've been emailing with the inventor/owner, and he sells a "single unit" unit for lifting one side at a time, but won't work for the Model S (well, it might work.. still unclear).

The other is: Quick Jack: QuickJack- Portable Car Lift- EZ Portable Car Lift - Ranger Products But they won't sell me "half" of a unit (to lift one side at a time).

I'm looking for something like this, with one jacking procedure, lift up one side at a time so I can swap winter/summer wheels without jacking up each corner one at a time with a standard floor jack (which is what I'm doing now, and is a PIA!)

I'd be a little concerned about stability lifting only one side of the car with one of these. Imagine lifting the side of your car, then looking at it from the rear. Now imagine a right triangle, with the car as the hypotenuse, and the jack and floor forming the right angle. As you raise the side of the car, lengthening the jack, the length across the floor (the other leg of the right triangle) has to shorten, or the right angle has to close.

This going to result in the jack leaning inwards, with a less than 90 degree angle. The higher you raise the car, the less stable it will become.

This is also why you (should) position a floor jack perpendicular to the side of the car (parallel to the axle), and why it the rolls away from you as you raise the car.

For the price of the EZ car lift, I'd seriously consider one of the Dannmar MaxJax setups, unless portability is a real concern: MaxJax Portable Two-Post Lifting System by Dannmar

A friend of mine has installed one of these. They're well made, 6000 lb capacity, and can be unbolted from the concrete anchors and moved to another bay or stored out of the way. The main reason he went with this model is that he has very short ceilings in his garage and couldn't put in a full-size lift. He can still raise the car enough to sit under it with a rolling mechanics seat.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I understand what you're describing, but for my purposes, I only need to lift the car enough to remove/swap the wheels, 1" or less off the ground, so the difference in vertical angle off 90 degrees isn't going to be so great that the car is unstable. It's not like I'm working under the car or leaving it jacked up for more than 5 to 10 minutes while I'm changing wheels.

I also don't want to spend several thousands of dollars for a real garage lift just to swap wheels twice a year. My upper limit was $1000 for the convenience of not having to jack up each corner individually.

 

[hbouw]

One thing I've been wondering about, which might be dangerous to test, is whether you even need a jack...If you set the suspension to very high, then put blocks under the frame points with almost no clearance and then set the suspension to low, something interesting will happen. That might be the car picks up all four wheels like the Citroen. It might be the wheels stay on the ground but are unloaded so they can be lifted by hand. Or it might be that attempting to drop the pressure below safe limits to achieve the lowered suspension will damage the air springs. I don't know, but I was wondering if someone did. Walter

has this been tried/answered? Very curious about this.

 

[wycolo]

Can we buy bi-directional tires any more? Seems they are all uni these days. Thus have to stay on same side side of car with just a front<=>rear swap.
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[brucet999]

Can we buy bi-directional tires any more? Seems they are all uni these days. Thus have to stay on same side side of car with just a front<=>rear swap.
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Cross-rotation disappeared with bias-ply tires and the advent of steel belted radials nearly 40 years ago.

 

[wycolo]

No, the OEM Bridgestones on my 2012 Forester called for X rotations. OEM GoodYear RS-A2s on 2012 MS have X rotatables - their only restriction is 'this side stays outward'.

But when I have replaced these the new tires all must now remain on same side of vehicle, and cannot be flipped on rim (run backwards to even out wear). Looks like it is goodbye X-rotation forevermore.
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[MajesticSound]

I got this socket from Summit Racing and really like it. Just the right amount of extension and a 6 point for a good fit

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SXT-284321

 

[mknox]

OEM GoodYear RS-A2s on 2012 MS have X rotatables - their only restriction is 'this side stays outward'.

Curious where you're getting this from. I just scanned the Owners Manual and the only reference I can find is about Tesla's recommendation to rotate tires every 5,000 miles. Nothing about same side or x pattern at all. My Service Center has rotated my 19" tires a couple of times and only done the front to rear thing.

 

[electricBear]

I understand what you're describing, but for my purposes, I only need to lift the car enough to remove/swap the wheels, 1" or less off the ground, so the difference in vertical angle off 90 degrees isn't going to be so great that the car is unstable. It's not like I'm working under the car or leaving it jacked up for more than 5 to 10 minutes while I'm changing wheels.

I also don't want to spend several thousands of dollars for a real garage lift just to swap wheels twice a year. My upper limit was $1000 for the convenience of not having to jack up each corner individually.

Thinking the same myself. My old cars have axel lift points so I can do both front or rears at once. Not so with the Tesla. You might look at a mid-rise scissor jack, they are often rollable which can be a side benefit. Keep in mind unlike a swing arm you need ground clearance so you want to check the height requirement, I have seen 4.x" which is not a problem and I've seen 5.75" where you could raise the air suspension but the coils (on paper) won't clear. Usually a bit over your $1k limit for new ($1500-$2000) but one option is find a certified lift repair shop like my brother in-law did. Just make sure of their reputation and certification and that they certify the refurb lift if you were to go that route.

 

[jerry33]

Cross-rotation disappeared with bias-ply tires and the advent of steel belted radials nearly 40 years ago.

That's not actually true. There is nothing about a radial tire that precludes cross rotation (just because it's radial). There are a small number of radial tires that must be cross rotated due the the directionality. Front to back rotation has more to do with safety during rotation (for the DIY person) than with tires (other than certain directional tires that have a rolling direction.). The Michelin Primacy is one example of a tire that could be cross rotated if you so desire. For that tire, other than the safety aspect, there's no difference in the effect.

- - - Updated - - -

Curious where you're getting this from. I just scanned the Owners Manual and the only reference I can find is about Tesla's recommendation to rotate tires every 5,000 miles. Nothing about same side or x pattern at all. My Service Center has rotated my 19" tires a couple of times and only done the front to rear thing.

I believe Wycolo means that there is no technical reason why the tires couldn't be X-rotated. Front to rear is probably a bit faster for the SC to accomplish (admittedly it's probably less than a minute faster, but that's still faster).

 

[mknox]

The Michelin Primacy is one example of a tire that could be cross rotated if you so desire. For that tire, other than the safety aspect, there's no difference in the effect.

Since I have just put new Michelin Primacy tires on my car a week or so ago, is there any advantage or disadvantage to cross rotating when the time comes? I had honestly thought front-rear was pretty much "standard practice" now, and my last few cars have recommended that right in the owners manuals.

 

[jerry33]

I had honestly thought front-rear was pretty much "standard practice" now, and my last few cars have recommended that right in the owners manuals.

This is mostly due to FUD from the early days, the safety aspect for DIY, the reduced time it takes, and the desire of no manufacturer to be "different" than any other, and the number of "tread pattern directional tires" that are on the market today which make the front to back rotation pattern simpler (e.g. they don't have to say front to back for one type, X for another). I don't know if one method would be better than the other for noise because I've never been involved with any studies that were designed to show that particular difference.

 

[brucet999]

There is nothing about a radial tire that precludes cross rotation (just because it's radial). There are a small number of radial tires that must be cross rotated due the the directionality.

That must be cross-ratated, or must not be cross-rotated? If radials generally do not have to remain on the same side of the car when rotated, what is it about some tires makes them directional?

 

[mknox]

what is it about some tires makes them directional?

Tread pattern.

 

[jerry33]

Tread pattern.

There are two kinds of direction tires:

1. Tread pattern directional. These have large printing "rolling direction >" on the sidewall. The tread pattern is usually V-shaped.

2. Casing directional. These have the casing and/or tread splices created in such a way the they need to run in one direction on drive axles and another on free rolling axles. They have small arrows on them. There are very few of these type and are generally for competition. They often have an "R" tread compound as well. Unless you are a motorsports participant you will likely never see tires of this type.

 

[wycolo]

Curious where you're getting this from. I just scanned the Owners Manual and the only reference I can find is about Tesla's recommendation to rotate tires every 5,000 miles. Nothing about same side or x pattern at all. My Service Center has rotated my 19" tires a couple of times and only done the front to rear thing.

You have to actually read all around the tire being careful not to miss the arrow graphics which can be confusing. Then look for any text such as 'this side always to the outside'. So the GoodYear OEMs that came with my Dec 2012 MS could be X-rotated. 'X' rotation means essentially that the rear tires go to the front but on the opposite side. Then the fronts go straight to the rear where they will continue to rotate the same way until next rotation.

Interesting that the Mich Primacy can be X-rotated. The new pair I just bought for the rear axle are the 'restricted' kind, but they were the only ones they had in stock. No big deal to give up the X-rotation practice since for one thing it is easier to just keep the summer tires always on the same side of the car (like I've been doing with the snows).
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[wycolo]

My new Conti DWS are also 'outside' tires, surprise. So they can be switched to the other side of the rear axle and run backwards. Choosing only OUTSIDE tires for future purchase would be one way to simplify life.
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[brucet999]

My new Conti DWS are also 'outside' tires, surprise. So they can be switched to the other side of the rear axle and run backwards. Choosing only OUTSIDE tires for future purchase would be one way to simplify life.
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What am I missing here? "This side always to outside" would have meaning only to the guy who mounts the tires on the wheels. After they are mounted, any rotation pattern at all would still leave the same side to outside (except for steel wheels in the hands of idiots of my generation who thought "reverse rims" was a cool idea).