Are SR/SR+ "bait and switch" for, at least, Californian?

[Krytron]

Wikipedia defines : Bait-and-switch is a form of fraud used in retail sales but also employed in other contexts. First, customers are "baited" by merchants' advertising products or services at a low price, but when customers visit the store, they discover that the advertised goods are not available, or the customers are pressured by sales people to consider similar, but higher priced items ("switching"). In the United States, no cause of action will exist if the purveyor is capable of actually selling the goods advertised, but aggressively pushes a competing product.

Here, Tesla advertises Model 3 at a low price (SR/SR+) and induce CA customers to make an order early in order to take delivery by end of year, but when customers make an order and wait, they discover that SR/SR+ are not available by end of year AND the customers are pressured by sales people to consider similar, but higher priced items in order to get delivery by end of year. Tesla was capable of actually selling SR/SR+, but Tesla intentionally delayed the production of SR/SR+ in order to aggressively pushes a competing product.

Do you think we have a case?

 

[Tam]

...
Do you think we have a case?

You might have a case if you can prove it.

Even higher-priced models are being pushed over to next year also so how can you prove that ONLY base models are discriminated?

Do you have any proof in writing that Tesla guarantees this year's delivery?

From Doc Brown:

 

[Bonk1977]

Yes it is. Mine got cancelled today. I was told I was guarantee delivery in the last two weeks of the month. The sales manager told me he is confident they will do something to make it right, but they screwed over and lied to alot of new owners. Great way to start a relationship. Lets see how they fix it.

 

[Bonk1977]

BTW I went down to the delivery center to talk about it to them... Showed them all the texts etc. They all agreed this has been a *sugar* show. Sooo many lies...

 

[Solate]

What did you do to your order? Continue to wait or cancel it? Did you hear anything about what they would do to fix it?

 

[MP3Mike]

Won't they still sell you what they advertised at the advertised price, just a little later than you wanted it?

 

[Bonk1977]

Wait, any remedies from Tesla will come in Jan so they can define what the cost is... it’s a negotiation now, if you have your order still, you have leverage. They can say tough luck, but then it will be a pr nightmare which they want to avoid...

 

[Bonk1977]

Keep telling them to make it right, until you are happy.

 

[MXWing]

@Krytron

I don't believe there is standing here because you have a rain check to buy the same product within a reasonable amount of time.

I can't imagine the influence of Federal Tax credits having any bearing on the Lanham Act.

You put $100 in without any kind of contract. There's no liquidated damages I can tell other than $100.

IANAL however.

Won't they still sell you what they advertised at the advertised price, just a little later than you wanted it?

Pretty much this.

 

[ewoodrick]

I love it when people wait until the last minute and something doesn't happen and then they blame everyone else for their procrastination. It's not as if the cars have been readily available for a year.
If you had ordered it 9 months ago, you would have gotten twice the tax credit. 15 months ago would have gotten 4 times the credit.

It's a shame that Tesla wasn't able to accurately predict the number of orders of specific models that they were going to get, and then produce at least that number of every combination to make everyone happy.

 

[Krytron]

You might have a case if you can prove it.

Even higher-priced models are being pushed over to next year also so how can you prove that ONLY base models are discriminated?

Do you have any proof in writing that Tesla guarantees this year's delivery?

From Doc Brown:

This is not a criminal case, it is a civil. You don't have to "prove" something. Courts only needs preponderance of the evidence. "Guarantee" is not required to make a case of bait and switch. If they guaranteed EOY delivery, you don't even have to think about bait and switch case. It is a case of "breach of contract", period. I don't think Tesla guaranteed EOY delivery, but they induced potential customers. That's why I am thinking of potential bait and switch case.

Yes, some LRs and Performances are delayed too and some SR/SR+ are delivered on time. I don't argue that. But those incidents cannot be Tesla's defense. If there are just one customer made SR/SR+ order and don't get it by bait and switch scheme, there will be a case.

 

[Tam]

...I was told I was guarantee delivery in the last two weeks of the month. The sales manager told me he is confident they will do something to make it right, but they screwed over and lied to alot of new owners. Great way to start a relationship. Lets see how they fix it.

That's why originally, Tesla wanted those people as educators, not salespeople with commissions. That's why it wanted to shut down salesrooms so what you can read on the web is what you get without going through the variability and creativity of salespeople.

Unfortunately, there have still been salespeople in Tesla and that's been the behaviors of their occupation, not just in Tesla but in general of their professional conduct as a whole.

Gallup poll reveals nurses, pharmacists most trustworthy while lawmakers, car salesmen rank worst

Thus, when talking to salespeople, we need proof, written proof that what they say is backed by the company's policy.

 

[Tam]

...there will be a case.

The worst penalty that Tesla will get is it will be forced by the court to return the whole amount of your deposit and not a single cent more.

Good luck to you!

 

[Krytron]

@Krytron

I don't believe there is standing here because you have a rain check to buy the same product within a reasonable amount of time.

I can't imagine the influence of Federal Tax credits having any bearing on the Lanham Act.

You put $100 in without any kind of contract. There's no liquidated damages I can tell other than $100.

IANAL however.



Pretty much this.

Let's say, you have birthday party coming and you need a cake. You see an advertisement for a $100 cake and visit the bakery and they say "It can be done by birthday, but it is not a guarantee." Birthday approaching, the bakery keep making lots of $200, $300 cake and trying to sell them to you. You decline and prepare birthday party. Eventually, they do not even make the $100 cake and notify non-delivery one hour before the party. The bakery is saying, "OK. We don't guarantee anything and you have a rain check to buy $100 cake later day." Are you happy with this bakery? Do you think your damage is just $100?

I think Tesla legal team realize they made some mistakes. There will be several law suits against Tesla regarding this non-delivery, maybe a class action. During the discovery, plaintiff shall request Tesla's production plan for Q4 and if the plan shows last days change to LR/P over SR/SR+, it will be for plaintiff. That's why Musk deleted his tweet on Dec 24. I am very positive that Tesla will give some kind of compensation for non-delivery customers. Will see.

 

[jrs_66]

Whole lot of sour grapes... Tesla’s corporate responsibility is to maximize shareholder value. It’s their obligation to cater to those who make it most worthwhile... let the rest eat upgrade fees.

 

[MXWing]

Let's say, you have birthday party coming and you need a cake. You see an advertisement for a $100 cake and visit the bakery and they say "It can be done by birthday, but it is not a guarantee." Birthday approaching, the bakery keep making lots of $200, $300 cake and trying to sell them to you. You decline and prepare birthday party. Eventually, they do not even make the $100 cake and notify non-delivery one hour before the party. The bakery is saying, "OK. We don't guarantee anything and you have a rain check to buy $100 cake later day." Are you happy with this bakery? Do you think your damage is just $100?

It's interesting contrived scenario but what you described would never happen in practice. The bakery would just make your cake or give you $100 before they deal with any kind of litigation.

Production / Delivery of a car is much harder to manage.

No question Tesla saw they can make 30,000 AWD/P cars that would sell this last month. Compare that to SR+ - its easy accounting decision.

Tesla can just go, here's $100 and we invoke our right to refuse service.

The level of engagement between you and Tesla just isn't very high here. You went to a website you put in $100. Tesla reaches out to you if your car isn't ready. If Tesla fails, they fail to sell you a $40,000 product.

They appear to be the more damaged party in this situation.

If you drew up a contract that discussed non-performance, that might be something.

Insistence for you to receive a product at an exact date with no contract, I think is a stretch.

I feel bad for you and I feel bad that Tesla couldn't make everyone happy. That's independent of my opinion on if you have a viable tort claim or not.

I got the "delivery cancellation" call as well. It was more productive in my situation to work with them on an alternative.

 

[jjrandorin]

Do you think we have a case?

Since I have stated many times that using the disagree button should require an explanation from the person clicking it... I am disagreeing with your opinion that you have some sort of bait and switch case.

No, I dont think you do, and no manner of armchair (or otherwise) legal wrangling is likely to get you more than your deposit back.

 

[OCR1]

Since I have stated many times that using the disagree button should require an explanation from the person clicking it... I am disagreeing with your opinion that you have some sort of bait and switch case.

No, I dont think you do, and no manner of armchair (or otherwise) legal wrangling is likely to get you more than your deposit back.

Yup, frustrating for sure but there is no case here. There are no damages. Tesla will refund the $100 if you don’t want the car any more but that’s their only obligation. What they did was pretty crappy for sure. But I still think people who wait until after New Years will eventually hear back from Tesla with some sort of compensation for missing their deliveries.

 

[gerebgraus]

Wikipedia defines : Bait-and-switch is a form of fraud used in retail sales but also employed in other contexts. First, customers are "baited" by merchants' advertising products or services at a low price, but when customers visit the store, they discover that the advertised goods are not available, or the customers are pressured by sales people to consider similar, but higher priced items ("switching"). In the United States, no cause of action will exist if the purveyor is capable of actually selling the goods advertised, but aggressively pushes a competing product.

Here, Tesla advertises Model 3 at a low price (SR/SR+) and induce CA customers to make an order early in order to take delivery by end of year, but when customers make an order and wait, they discover that SR/SR+ are not available by end of year AND the customers are pressured by sales people to consider similar, but higher priced items in order to get delivery by end of year. Tesla was capable of actually selling SR/SR+, but Tesla intentionally delayed the production of SR/SR+ in order to aggressively pushes a competing product.

Do you think we have a case?

It is a good exercise to analyze the legal case, but it is actually a PR case. Apparently demand is much higher than supply. Tesla probably has sufficient battery cells to produce long-range vehicles mostly. For whatever reason, they might have decided to maximize profits this quarter and prioritized higher profit margin vehicles e.g. long-range. As a consequence, a large number of SR+ buyers and some LR and even performance buyers who had reasonable expectation to get delivery this year do not get delivery in time. My guess is that Tesla does not want these hard feelings to linger, so they will make these buyers whole in the next quarter. So chill out, happy new year, and you will have time to get upset if Tesla does not offer you a decent solution in a couple of days. You will have time to get upset if Tesla does not offer suitable arrangements.

 

[boriszima]

You might have a case if you can prove that was Tesla’s goal from the start. As we see many other people who deposited $100 for their SR are getting their car. Tesla tried its best? To deliver but failed. As a current owner I am sorry this happened to you and hopefully Tesla will make right for you next year. Maybe throw in some super charging or discount or other incentive.