Are Tesla service centers running out of profit?

[Sophias_dad]

Soo... I made an appointment(Watertown, MA) to deal with my creaky front end(under warranty) next week, and after a short time I realized that I haven't had the rather dubious brake fluid change done yet. Its been three years and 42k miles or so, and I had heard its only like a $125 deal so I asked if they could do that via the 'messages' option on my service ticket in the app.

They responded that I have "never had any annual services" and they could set me up with an annual service, and that the cost is 'usually around $500'. I thanked them but told them I'd pass on the annual service, and to skip doing anything to the brake fluid. I actually have some brake fluid test strips around here and will be checking its water content on my own, and changing it myself if needed. I might not be able to fully flush the ABS module, but I'm sure it'll be close enough.


Really Tesla, a maintenance free car, and you want 'usually around $500' to check tire pressures, refill the windshield washer tank, and MAYBE replace the wipers and MAYBE change the brake fluid(even if they say they did, trying to charge me $500 for basically no service means I won't be trusting them ever). WTF is with the usually, too... does the price change depending on whether my tires actually need more air, and change further if any are more than N psi low? How about that $40/gallon washer fluid? sigh.

 

[raptor5244]

It is $10 per PSI for air. Don't forget the flux capacitor cleansing.

 

[gearchruncher]

Talk to @Knightshade - He'll explain to you that Elon said Tesla service centers were never meant to turn a profit, and the quarterly earnings reports show they lose money, so you should be happy at how cheap they are.

 

[Knightshade]

Talk to @Knightshade - He'll explain to you that Elon said Tesla service centers were never meant to turn a profit, and the quarterly earnings reports show they lose money, so you should be happy at how cheap they are.

Elon did say that. And they've never- ever- made a profit on service centers and their financial statements support that fact.

So. Yeah.


None of which has to do with the fact people who work front-end at service centers often have no idea WTF they're talking about other than reading off a script (this is not unique to Tesla)- so they'll often offer you whatever "standard" thing is on their script.

It's up to the consumer to actually understand what's called for maintenance wise on their vehicle.

 

[MasterC17]

Technically, an annual service on (I'm assuming) a two or three year old Model 3 that has never had any service done should have the brake fluid flush, wiper blades, cabin air filters, tire rotation, an alignment, and, given you are in the North East, a brake clean and lube. Guessing that all would be close to $500. I would recommend confirming what they were planning to do before making assumptions.

Finally, Tesla's service (and parts especially) are actually quite cheap compared to the likes of BMW, Audi, etc.

 

[gearchruncher]

Finally, Tesla's service (and parts especially) are actually quite cheap compared to the likes of BMW, Audi, etc.

I wonder if we have any real data on this. I was pleasantly surprised that a wheel bearing for a Model 3 was only about $110. However, brake pads are $500+.
Tesla's labor is about $200 per hour which is basically the same as BMW in my area.
The real issue is that once you're out of warranty, Audi and BMW have independent shops that can work on the cars, and plenty of aftermarket parts. You're pretty locked into Tesla for now.

 

[Knightshade]

I wonder if we have any real data on this. I was pleasantly surprised that a wheel bearing for a Model 3 was only about $110. However, brake pads are $500+.
Tesla's labor is about $200 per hour which is basically the same as BMW in my area.
The real issue is that once you're out of warranty, Audi and BMW have independent shops that can work on the cars, and plenty of aftermarket parts. You're pretty locked into Tesla for now.

Huh?

Many 3rd parties sell brake pads for Teslas- and mechanically they're the same as anyone elses, and any shop can work on them.

Or here's directions to DIY in 30-45 minutes with a few simple tools

Tesla Model 3 Front Brake Pad (Base Caliper) Replacement DIY

Here is our installation instructions/DIY Guide on how to replace the front brake pads on your Tesla Model 3!

www.mountainpassperformance.com

 

[Sophias_dad]

Technically, an annual service on (I'm assuming) a two or three year old Model 3 that has never had any service done should have the brake fluid flush, wiper blades, cabin air filters, tire rotation, an alignment, and, given you are in the North East, a brake clean and lube. Guessing that all would be close to $500. I would recommend confirming what they were planning to do before making assumptions.

Finally, Tesla's service (and parts especially) are actually quite cheap compared to the likes of BMW, Audi, etc.

I'm not and will never be sure what they would have charged me, but of those services:

Alignment will be done after the front end creaking parts are replaced.
Cabin air filters and evaporator were done(by me) in the past six months.
Tire rotations are handled by me every 5-7 months during summer/winter/summer wheel swaps.

That leaves wiper blades, brake clean and lube and brake fluid.. I'll do the first two of those when I do the winter swap in November, and the brake fluid when my test strips say its getting too watery.

Admittedly, the SC wouldn't know about me handling the cabin air filter and tire rotations myself, but they would know that they would be doing the alignment as part of the warranty service. I guess its arguably better to say its gonna be $500 and have it come in at $300, than to say it'll be $300 and have it come in at $500. If I were going to pay $500 a year for routine maintenance, I might reconsider Tesla ownership.(Ya, I know S owners have it much worse)

 

[gearchruncher]

Huh?

Many 3rd parties sell brake pads for Teslas- and mechanically they're the same as anyone elses, and any shop can work on them.

Ahem, as someone that races a Model 3, I'm well aware of brake pads on Teslas, at least the performance ones.

But you're wrong that many 3rd parties sell brake pads for non-performance purposes for Teslas. Go to Amazon and look for brake pads for a Model 3. There are NONE. Wagner makes a set, but only for the front. NRS has full sets. That's nothing compared to a BMW or any other volume car.

And you can't do a rear pad replacement or brake bleed without the Tesla toolbox, or hacking up some wires for the rear pad replacement.

But brakes are not what I was talking about. I mean a control arm, or even a windshield. Don't even try to buy a body panel. And then once you're into electronic modules, it gets even worse, and then worse again when Tesla starts doing VIN restrictions or not selling parts to people with branded titles. It's a shame that Tesla has such an anti-right to repair stance (except in places they are legally prevented), and this is going to impact 3rd party repair costs for a very long time.

The only point here is that it's a mixed bag, and far from clear that Tesla's service and parts are cheaper than BMW/Audi, especially when Tesla won't even sell you a lot of stuff.

 

[Silicon Desert]

It is $10 per PSI for air.

But it is not just normal air. It is Tesla air. A special kind of air. $10 per psi is a deal.

 

[MasterC17]

Ahem, as someone that races a Model 3, I'm well aware of brake pads on Teslas, at least the performance ones.

But you're wrong that many 3rd parties sell brake pads for non-performance purposes for Teslas. Go to Amazon and look for brake pads for a Model 3. There are NONE. Wagner makes a set, but only for the front. NRS has full sets. That's nothing compared to a BMW or any other volume car.

And you can't do a rear pad replacement or brake bleed without the Tesla toolbox, or hacking up some wires for the rear pad replacement.

But brakes are not what I was talking about. I mean a control arm, or even a windshield. Don't even try to buy a body panel. And then once you're into electronic modules, it gets even worse, and then worse again when Tesla starts doing VIN restrictions or not selling parts to people with branded titles. It's a shame that Tesla has such an anti-right to repair stance (except in places they are legally prevented), and this is going to impact 3rd party repair costs for a very long time.

The only point here is that it's a mixed bag, and far from clear that Tesla's service and parts are cheaper than BMW/Audi, especially when Tesla won't even sell you a lot of stuff.

FWIW the Base pads are cheap. $110 per axle. Even for the Performance it's $330 per axle, which isn't cheap but isn't terrible either.

Using a 9V battery to replace the rear brake pads is not too difficult, and the same as any car with an electronic integrated EPB. Definitely don't need Toolbox to bleed brakes.

Don't get me wrong, I understand your point, but I've purchased many, many parts from Tesla for various projects and I can confidently say, previously being a BMW fan-boy, that Tesla's parts prices are cheaper across the board.

 

[Knightshade]

But you're wrong that many 3rd parties sell brake pads for non-performance purposes for Teslas.

PENALTY! MOVING THE GOALPOSTS.

Your original claim was you had to go to Tesla for parts.

This is simply not true.

Now you're trying to No True Scotsman all the 3rd party pads available.

Go to Amazon and look for brake pads for a Model 3

. There are NONE. Wagner makes a set, but only for the front. NRS has full sets. That's nothing compared to a BMW or any other volume car.

Ah, so now you're moving the goalposts again--- it's not "you have to go to Tesla" it's that "there are only a couple of options on amazon"

And of course there's options elsewhere too- MPP, UPP, EBC, etc.

And you can't do a rear pad replacement or brake bleed without the Tesla toolbox, or hacking up some wires for the rear pad replacement.

This does not appear to be accurate

How to replace the brake pads on your model 3 – Tesla Model 3 Wiki

No "hacking" of anything, nor special Tesla tools, are called for.

But brakes are not what I was talking about.

Weird- since they were literally a part you talked about.

" brake pads are $500+"

I mean a control arm.

And again that is not actually true.

Camber Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms for Tesla Model 3 & Y

The Corkscrew Front Upper Control Arms for Tesla Model 3 & Y provide substantial negative camber and endless adjustment with a high quality ball joint!

www.mountainpassperformance.com

3rd party control arms.

Model 3 / Model Y Front Upper Control Arms (FUCA)

Unplugged Performance Billet Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms (FUCA) – Ultimate Edition. Improve your Model 3 and Model Y handling prowess

unpluggedperformance.com

Another, different, 3rd party control arm.


Your main objection appears to not be "You have to get all parts from Tesla" it's that "there's not ENOUGH different other sources like on a Civic or something"

That's not on Tesla- obviously nobody is STOPPING third parties from making these parts-- as evidenced by the fact some already do. Just not enough 3rd parties have found there's enough of a market.


But if you think there's a HUGE market for some part there's not enough 3rd party options for, sounds like a great business opportunity for you!

Don't even try to buy a body panel.

Ascension Front Fascia System for Tesla Model 3 Vehicles

The Ascension Front Fascia System is a complete bolt-on replacement solution for the Tesla Model 3’s front fascia with our performance inspired redesign.

unpluggedperformance.com

Ascension Rear Bumper and Diffuser System for Tesla Model 3

The Unplugged Performance Ascension Carbon Fiber Rear Bumper and diffuser is a great way to add sportyness and style to your Tesla Model 3

unpluggedperformance.com

Replacement front and rear bumper panels from a third party.

Let me guess, you didn't "mean" THOSE panels right?

 

[gearchruncher]

Let me guess, you didn't "mean" THOSE panels right?

Of course not. I mean when you want to actually keep a car stock, and just repair it to like it was. Not $1300 adjustable control arms that cost 3X the stock price because they do more, or a body panel that looks nothing like stock. Same with brake pads- ones that are designed to work like stock ones. If you go to an auto parts store you can buy a control arm for a BMW that works identical to stock for much less than BMW will sell you one.

It's cool to see all the aftermarket performance/aesthetic stuff coming out for Tesla, but we're far away from the stock replacement, independent parts and service that other brands have. I'm sure this will come with volume, but only time will tell.

And we all know that while BMW will sell you a piston, or a pinion for your diff, Tesla is never, ever going to sell you a battery cell, a motor rotor, or a differential. Tesla won't even sell you a radar module or a pre-painted bumper, even though they use them themselves for service. Their own parts catalog shows simple bolts as "Restricted."

 

[raptor5244]

But it is not just normal air. It is Tesla air. A special kind of air. $10 per psi is a deal.

It comes from the lungs of Elon.

 

[Sophias_dad]

I'm not and will never be sure what they would have charged me, but of those services:

Alignment will be done after the front end creaking parts are replaced.
Cabin air filters and evaporator were done(by me) in the past six months.
Tire rotations are handled by me every 5-7 months during summer/winter/summer wheel swaps.

That leaves wiper blades, brake clean and lube and brake fluid.. I'll do the first two of those when I do the winter swap in November, and the brake fluid when my test strips say its getting too watery.

Admittedly, the SC wouldn't know about me handling the cabin air filter and tire rotations myself, but they would know that they would be doing the alignment as part of the warranty service. I guess its arguably better to say its gonna be $500 and have it come in at $300, than to say it'll be $300 and have it come in at $500. If I were going to pay $500 a year for routine maintenance, I might reconsider Tesla ownership.(Ya, I know S owners have it much worse)

Correction... I did the brake clean and lube on Sunday morning. From now on I'll be doing it every time I swap over to Summer wheel/tires because around half the time is just dealing with jacking up and removing/reinstalling the wheels.

I did the wipers this afternoon in about five minutes. Bosch 3397014116, available from FCP Euro for $21.59 plus $5.99 shipping, or Carid for $18.15 plus like $9 shipping. If you want to stock up or have some nearby 3 owners who want to share, FCP Euro is the better deal because shipping is free after $49. (FCP Euro also will replace them FREE if you send the old ones back(!) I understand)