Are the 21" Wheels stopping your Performance upgrade?

[jkirkebo]

I'm struggling with this very issue. 21" wheels in snow country is worthless as a year round solution.
I can appreciate that California customers don't have this issue (for the most part).
However, it forces all of us in snow country to buy a second set of wheels/tires unless we just trade the 21" wheels for 19" up front.
If we do that it means that we're paying an extra $3500 for nothing.
Doesn't seem like a very customer friendly situation to put all the snow country customers in.

People who live in real snow country know they can't use the same wheels year round anyway, so we would get a separate winter wheel set even if we got the 19" wheels for summer use.

I'm going for 21" perf.wheels in summer and 19" studded tires (Nokia Hakkapeliitta 7) in winter.

 

[ckessel]

$3500 credit, even if it is only Tesla store and service credit -- wow think of all the Model S RC cars and onesies I can buy! -- will help me push from general production S to performance S.

Heh, that was worth a spit take. I had this mental image of someone with a couple dozen Model S RC cars zooming around his living room.

 

[contaygious]

Why do people not like the 21s? Is it only the price? I think it helps make the performance model more unique and the dark rims go well with carbon fiber. Also the magnetic suspension should help with the hard ride right?

 

[Jeeps17]

Why do people not like the 21s? Is it only the price? I think it helps make the performance model more unique and the dark rims go well with carbon fiber. Also the magnetic suspension should help with the hard ride right?

1. Extremely limited number of compatible tires, only available for summer use (AFAIK, maybe there are all seasons).
2. Expensive tires with limited lifespan (due to the high-performance sticky rubber).
3. Low-profile tires with a heavy vehicle = increased risk of tire or rim damage while driving.
4. #3 in a car without a spare.
5. A blown tire can be difficult if not impossible to replace quickly depending on where you are (due to #1).

I am sure I forgot something...

Many people have noted that 19' turbine rims would be a very good compromise.

 

[jerry33]

Why do people not like the 21s? Is it only the price?

No, it's that they don't work where there is a real winter. In most jurisdictions it's not legal to run summer tires when there is snow/ice on the ground (not to mention it's not safe either). Those places typically have poor conditions for nine months of the year, so you either have to purchase a second set of wheels and tires or (right now) get the proper 19" wheels and tires but pay the 21" price.

 

[bluetinc]

All,

I just wanted to close this out with a quick wrap-up.

I took the data from the poll and created some estimates of what those numbers mean to Tesla. I then set those along with a summary of the known 19/21" discussion points to the correct person at Tesla. They were both very interested in the information and the views of their customers. While I have no idea if things will change, our views about this have certainly made it into corporate.

A big thank you to all who voted.

Peter

 

[ckessel]

Thanks for that follow through bluetinc. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[JakeP]

Yes bluetinc, thank you very much for your efforts. I would love to own a performance, but the 21" wheels are a showstopper, for all of the reasons listed in this thread. And while the option of purchasing a spare set of 19" wheels is now possible, I would *much* rather see a performance-exclusive 19" option made available, for those of us who live in the land of long winters full of snow, frost-heaves and nasty winter potholes!

 

[Jeeps17]

I would *much* rather see a performance-exclusive 19" option made available, for those of us who live in the land of long winters full of snow, frost-heaves and nasty winter potholes!

That is a great idea!

 

[100thMonkey]

I read back through the entire thread and have to say I share the aversion to the 21" wheels but love the turbine look. 19" turbine rims has been the discussion as of late with my wife even before reading this thread. honestly, I'd go for smaller rims yet, as I buy tires the way I buy light bulbs, the longer they last the better. we are already talking about selling the stock rims and purchasing something more ot our liking. Maybe there needs to be a performance option with an eco chic variant that offers combos like smaller turbine wheels and LED headlamps.

 

[jerry33]

I read back through the entire thread and have to say I share the aversion to the 21" wheels but love the turbine look. 19" turbine rims has been the discussion as of late with my wife even before reading this thread. honestly, I'd go for smaller rims yet, as I buy tires the way I buy light bulbs, the longer they last the better. we are already talking about selling the stock rims and purchasing something more ot our liking. Maybe there needs to be a performance option with an eco chic variant that offers combos like smaller turbine wheels and LED headlamps.

+1 Except I'd rather have disk wheels (that is, the wheels are a solid disk) rather than turbine wheels.

 

[Lloyd]

It would be nice to have a 20" wheel option with a -40 profile. I believe the diameter would be very similar.

I read back through the entire thread and have to say I share the aversion to the 21" wheels but love the turbine look. 19" turbine rims has been the discussion as of late with my wife even before reading this thread. honestly, I'd go for smaller rims yet, as I buy tires the way I buy light bulbs, the longer they last the better. we are already talking about selling the stock rims and purchasing something more ot our liking. Maybe there needs to be a performance option with an eco chic variant that offers combos like smaller turbine wheels and LED headlamps.

 

[smorgasbord]

It would be nice to have a 20" wheel option with a -40 profile. I believe the diameter would be very similar.

Yeah, I tried looking at aftermarket 20" wheels here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/8785-Wheel-Bolt-Pattern?p=172572&viewfull=1#post172572

I think 20" would be a good compromise between the 21" and 19" wheel options we have today. At least for Northern Californians who don't get (much) snow, but do have lousy roads to deal with.

 

[JakeP]

Bluetinc, did you ever receive any additional feedback from TM on this topic? I was reminded of this thread as I walked by my neighbor's new A7 with 20" low-profile rims and tires, and saw the left rear tire completely blown out, and a big gouge out of the right rear rubber. And this in summertime, the "low season" for potholes here in Pennsylvania!

My configuration email will be arriving soon, and I *really* would like to select a performance model with 19" wheels, but the simple unfairness of paying $3500 for something I am not receiving will preclude me from going performance. I have got to think that many Northeast buyers will be in the same boat.

Given how many times this has been discussed, I really wonder why George B doesn't weigh in like he did on the Canadian pricing issue, or why they don't simply offer some other solution...like a credit for the downgrade, applicable only to other options and not to base price, or a performance-exclusive 19" turbine wheel. Just something to remove that feeling of being done an injustice, in being forced to pay for something you don't get...a feeling so utterly out of line with the rest of the Tesla experience. I keep checking the Pricing/Specs and the Design Studio for last minute changes, given how GB explained how they were keeping this up-to-date with current production realities...but no luck so far.

 

[ckessel]

My configuration email will be arriving soon, and I *really* would like to select a performance model with 19" wheels, but the simple unfairness of paying $3500 for something I am not receiving will preclude me from going performance. I have got to think that many Northeast buyers will be in the same boat.

Yea, same hesitation here. I know it's been discussed endlessly, but having gotten my config email the 19" tire credit is the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on the Perf.

 

[KenEE]

It would be nice to have a 20" wheel option with a -40 profile. I believe the diameter would be very similar.

You've got that right! 245/35/21 has a diameter of 27.75". 245/40/20 has a diameter of 27.72". A difference of only .03 inches!

And at 20" you get about 5X more choices on Tire Rack vs. 21".

 

[contaygious]

There must be a reason for 21. Maybe they signed a deal with the tire company?

 

[bluetinc]

Hi Jake,

I have not received any additional feedback, but I neither asked for any or expected it. I both had a long conversation with the correct person from Tesla in person, and traded a number of emails with them about this while providing my summary and my data about this. We also discussed this particular thread and the views of Tesla customers. Tesla clearly understands that some of us are not happy with the current setup, and why.

While I fully believe that it would benefit Tesla if they change their current policy with regards to this, can I play devils advocate for a second? There are other manufacturers out there, that when you purchase the performance package version from them you only get a version with performance tires and that's that. Tesla has added the option for us to swap to other, sometimes more useful, wheels/tires. (And it's in fact this option that now yields the heartburn) Perhaps Tesla would in some ways be better off not offering the option to swap sizes down to 19" All Seasons?

Peter

 

[JakeP]

Actually I have been doing the same type of analysis on this situation, trying to see Tesla's point of view. The buyer's problem is of course caused by the *perceived* loss of $3500 in value, because that is what the upgrade charge from 19" to 21" would be on a standard. If there were no upgrade charge, we would have absolutely no issue. But consider this further. Is the incremental cost of the 21" wheels and performance tires actually $3500 *more* than the cost of 19" wheels and standard tires? I seriously doubt it. But Tesla might have priced the upgrade this way as a punitive cost or dis-incentive for people to order a standard with Perf style wheels *instead* of buying a Perf. So perhaps they decided to price these wheels at almost 1/3 of the total Perf difference for this reason...but there is not actually that much of a cost delta, which is why there is no downgrade credit for any amount. Who knows, perhaps the 21" wheels were originally reserved for Sigs early on in the marketing concept, and that generated the desire for exclusivity on these wheels, and hence the additional price (if not actual cost).

This theory may be way off base, but it is helping me cope with the perceived unfairness in the pricing.

But do I ever wish there was a 19" turbine wheel nonetheless.

 

[bluetinc]

JakeP,

While it doesn't answer the question of internal costing for the wheels and the tires, the wheel pricing that has been released for purchasing winter sets and or replacement wheels follows the same cost delta. A set of 19"s = ~ 1000 + 700 =~1700 and a set of the 21's = $5,200 which just happens to be exactly the $3,500...

19" turbines would have been nice....

Peter