TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Are the 21" Wheels stopping your Performance upgrade?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by bluetinc, Jun 9, 2012.

?

Are the 21" Wheels stopping your Prefomance upgrade?

  1. I am already ordering the Performance version and keeping the 21s.

    72 vote(s)
    48.3%
  2. I am already ordering the Performance version and I would take the credit for the downgrade.

    18 vote(s)
    12.1%
  3. I would order the Performance version only if I get credit for the downgrade to 19s.

    37 vote(s)
    24.8%
  4. I am already ordering the Standard version and keeping my order unchanged.

    22 vote(s)
    14.8%
  1. jkirkebo

    jkirkebo Model S P85+ VIN 14420 EU

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    952
    Location:
    Fredrikstad, Norway
    People who live in real snow country know they can't use the same wheels year round anyway, so we would get a separate winter wheel set even if we got the 19" wheels for summer use.

    I'm going for 21" perf.wheels in summer and 19" studded tires (Nokia Hakkapeliitta 7) in winter.
     
  2. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,308
    Heh, that was worth a spit take. I had this mental image of someone with a couple dozen Model S RC cars zooming around his living room.
     
  3. contaygious

    contaygious Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,097
    Location:
    Marina, San Francisco
    Why do people not like the 21s? Is it only the price? I think it helps make the performance model more unique and the dark rims go well with carbon fiber. Also the magnetic suspension should help with the hard ride right?
     
  4. Jeeps17

    Jeeps17 Cath Jockey in a P85

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    1. Extremely limited number of compatible tires, only available for summer use (AFAIK, maybe there are all seasons).
    2. Expensive tires with limited lifespan (due to the high-performance sticky rubber).
    3. Low-profile tires with a heavy vehicle = increased risk of tire or rim damage while driving.
    4. #3 in a car without a spare.
    5. A blown tire can be difficult if not impossible to replace quickly depending on where you are (due to #1).

    I am sure I forgot something...

    Many people have noted that 19' turbine rims would be a very good compromise.
     
  5. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15,239
    Location:
    Texas
    No, it's that they don't work where there is a real winter. In most jurisdictions it's not legal to run summer tires when there is snow/ice on the ground (not to mention it's not safe either). Those places typically have poor conditions for nine months of the year, so you either have to purchase a second set of wheels and tires or (right now) get the proper 19" wheels and tires but pay the 21" price.
     
  6. bluetinc

    bluetinc Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    760
    Location:
    MD
    All,

    I just wanted to close this out with a quick wrap-up.

    I took the data from the poll and created some estimates of what those numbers mean to Tesla. I then set those along with a summary of the known 19/21" discussion points to the correct person at Tesla. They were both very interested in the information and the views of their customers. While I have no idea if things will change, our views about this have certainly made it into corporate.

    A big thank you to all who voted.

    Peter
     
  7. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,308
    Thanks for that follow through bluetinc. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
     
  8. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,840
    Location:
    Wexford, PA
    Yes bluetinc, thank you very much for your efforts. I would love to own a performance, but the 21" wheels are a showstopper, for all of the reasons listed in this thread. And while the option of purchasing a spare set of 19" wheels is now possible, I would *much* rather see a performance-exclusive 19" option made available, for those of us who live in the land of long winters full of snow, frost-heaves and nasty winter potholes!
     
  9. Jeeps17

    Jeeps17 Cath Jockey in a P85

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    That is a great idea!
     
  10. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    923
    Location:
    Seattle area
    I read back through the entire thread and have to say I share the aversion to the 21" wheels but love the turbine look. 19" turbine rims has been the discussion as of late with my wife even before reading this thread. honestly, I'd go for smaller rims yet, as I buy tires the way I buy light bulbs, the longer they last the better. we are already talking about selling the stock rims and purchasing something more ot our liking. Maybe there needs to be a performance option with an eco chic variant that offers combos like smaller turbine wheels and LED headlamps.
     
  11. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15,239
    Location:
    Texas
    +1 Except I'd rather have disk wheels (that is, the wheels are a solid disk) rather than turbine wheels.
     
  12. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,007
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    It would be nice to have a 20" wheel option with a -40 profile. I believe the diameter would be very similar.



     
  13. smorgasbord

    smorgasbord Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,606
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
  14. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,840
    Location:
    Wexford, PA
    Bluetinc, did you ever receive any additional feedback from TM on this topic? I was reminded of this thread as I walked by my neighbor's new A7 with 20" low-profile rims and tires, and saw the left rear tire completely blown out, and a big gouge out of the right rear rubber. And this in summertime, the "low season" for potholes here in Pennsylvania!

    My configuration email will be arriving soon, and I *really* would like to select a performance model with 19" wheels, but the simple unfairness of paying $3500 for something I am not receiving will preclude me from going performance. I have got to think that many Northeast buyers will be in the same boat.

    Given how many times this has been discussed, I really wonder why George B doesn't weigh in like he did on the Canadian pricing issue, or why they don't simply offer some other solution...like a credit for the downgrade, applicable only to other options and not to base price, or a performance-exclusive 19" turbine wheel. Just something to remove that feeling of being done an injustice, in being forced to pay for something you don't get...a feeling so utterly out of line with the rest of the Tesla experience. I keep checking the Pricing/Specs and the Design Studio for last minute changes, given how GB explained how they were keeping this up-to-date with current production realities...but no luck so far.
     
  15. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,308
    Yea, same hesitation here. I know it's been discussed endlessly, but having gotten my config email the 19" tire credit is the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on the Perf.
     
  16. KenEE

    KenEE P1937 Reward Excellence!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    335
    Location:
    Texas
    You've got that right! 245/35/21 has a diameter of 27.75". 245/40/20 has a diameter of 27.72". A difference of only .03 inches!

    And at 20" you get about 5X more choices on Tire Rack vs. 21".
     
  17. contaygious

    contaygious Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,097
    Location:
    Marina, San Francisco
    There must be a reason for 21. Maybe they signed a deal with the tire company?
     
  18. bluetinc

    bluetinc Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    760
    Location:
    MD
    Hi Jake,

    I have not received any additional feedback, but I neither asked for any or expected it. I both had a long conversation with the correct person from Tesla in person, and traded a number of emails with them about this while providing my summary and my data about this. We also discussed this particular thread and the views of Tesla customers. Tesla clearly understands that some of us are not happy with the current setup, and why.

    While I fully believe that it would benefit Tesla if they change their current policy with regards to this, can I play devils advocate for a second? There are other manufacturers out there, that when you purchase the performance package version from them you only get a version with performance tires and that's that. Tesla has added the option for us to swap to other, sometimes more useful, wheels/tires. (And it's in fact this option that now yields the heartburn) Perhaps Tesla would in some ways be better off not offering the option to swap sizes down to 19" All Seasons?

    Peter
     
  19. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,840
    Location:
    Wexford, PA
    Actually I have been doing the same type of analysis on this situation, trying to see Tesla's point of view. The buyer's problem is of course caused by the *perceived* loss of $3500 in value, because that is what the upgrade charge from 19" to 21" would be on a standard. If there were no upgrade charge, we would have absolutely no issue. But consider this further. Is the incremental cost of the 21" wheels and performance tires actually $3500 *more* than the cost of 19" wheels and standard tires? I seriously doubt it. But Tesla might have priced the upgrade this way as a punitive cost or dis-incentive for people to order a standard with Perf style wheels *instead* of buying a Perf. So perhaps they decided to price these wheels at almost 1/3 of the total Perf difference for this reason...but there is not actually that much of a cost delta, which is why there is no downgrade credit for any amount. Who knows, perhaps the 21" wheels were originally reserved for Sigs early on in the marketing concept, and that generated the desire for exclusivity on these wheels, and hence the additional price (if not actual cost).

    This theory may be way off base, but it is helping me cope with the perceived unfairness in the pricing.

    But do I ever wish there was a 19" turbine wheel nonetheless.
     
  20. bluetinc

    bluetinc Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    760
    Location:
    MD
    JakeP,

    While it doesn't answer the question of internal costing for the wheels and the tires, the wheel pricing that has been released for purchasing winter sets and or replacement wheels follows the same cost delta. A set of 19"s = ~ 1000 + 700 =~1700 and a set of the 21's = $5,200 which just happens to be exactly the $3,500...

    19" turbines would have been nice....

    Peter
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC