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are the PG&E black and white bills still a thing?

astrorob

stealth performance M3
Aug 27, 2014
494
122
oakland, ca
per some old threads (2018), when you get PTO for a powerwall PGE apparently moves you to a differently named NEM plan which then necessitates this old-style "black and white bill" billing. since all solar customers used to receive this type of bill, but at some point in the past were rolled back in to the "blue" bill, i'm curious whether or not the black and white bill has been eliminated for storage customers as well. from what i understand, this bill transition would be accompanied by a forced true-up if it happens.

i got PTO mid-june and received a regular "blue" bill today which looks exactly the same as before, save for the fact that it now calls out EV2 instead of EV. granted PTO may have come too late for PGE to have made any kind of billing switch.

anyway is this still a thing? should i be looking out for a nem true up bill?

thanks
 

getakey

Active Member
Jan 28, 2020
1,497
483
95762
Does your Blue Bill have your current NEM amount? Usually that disappears from the Blue Bill and then is only available on the B&W bill. You will get both
 

Redhill_qik

Member
Aug 16, 2020
387
287
South SF Bay, California
per some old threads (2018), when you get PTO for a powerwall PGE apparently moves you to a differently named NEM plan which then necessitates this old-style "black and white bill" billing. since all solar customers used to receive this type of bill, but at some point in the past were rolled back in to the "blue" bill, i'm curious whether or not the black and white bill has been eliminated for storage customers as well. from what i understand, this bill transition would be accompanied by a forced true-up if it happens.

i got PTO mid-june and received a regular "blue" bill today which looks exactly the same as before, save for the fact that it now calls out EV2 instead of EV. granted PTO may have come too late for PGE to have made any kind of billing switch.

anyway is this still a thing? should i be looking out for a nem true up bill?

thanks
I believe that the PG&E black bill is only sent if you have Powerwalls/ESS which changes you from NEM2 to NEMPS or NEMMT.
 

astrorob

stealth performance M3
Aug 27, 2014
494
122
oakland, ca
Does your Blue Bill have your current NEM amount? Usually that disappears from the Blue Bill and then is only available on the B&W bill. You will get both

it does - it looks like my prior month's bill (and every bill before that) with all the NEM info/tables/graphs.

I believe that the PG&E black bill is only sent if you have Powerwalls/ESS which changes you from NEM2 to NEMPS or NEMMT.

sorry, i kind of buried the lede there - i am a powerwall customer, but i only have 2 PWs if that matters.

but it sounds like this is still a thing, so i guess i will have a forced true-up?
 

holeydonut

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
2,362
1,705
East Bay NorCal
It gets way worse if you're on a CCA instead of being 100% on PG&E. @astrorob , any chance you're on some community choice aggregator? If so, your Black and White bill will not have generation NEM... it will only have "other" NEM for transmission, fees, and other wack-stuff. The old color blue-header PG&E bill will keep the generation NEM since that's the only bill that can report on generation purchased-from/sent-to the CCA.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,692
6,532
Los Altos, CA
After PTO it will probably take two to three billing cycles to do the forced true-up and recalculate everything correctly from the PTO date. For Powerwall customers, the Black and White bill is definitely still used.
 
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astrorob

stealth performance M3
Aug 27, 2014
494
122
oakland, ca
ok thanks for the replies everyone... too bad. well, my original true-up was in november so maybe i'm looking at september now.

@holeydonut i deliberately opted out of CCA just to keep things simple during this powerwall installation. don't know if i will eventually switch. i'm not sure if EBCE pays out excess NEM credits even when generation is less than consumption; that would probably be the only reason for me to switch.

rob
 

holeydonut

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
2,362
1,705
East Bay NorCal
ok thanks for the replies everyone... too bad. well, my original true-up was in november so maybe i'm looking at september now.

@holeydonut i deliberately opted out of CCA just to keep things simple during this powerwall installation. don't know if i will eventually switch. i'm not sure if EBCE pays out excess NEM credits even when generation is less than consumption; that would probably be the only reason for me to switch.

rob


Yeah for you I don't think there's a benefit for you to switch to EBCE. Assuming EBCE doesn't charge you a crap-ton more for generation energy than PG&E, I think the only time you'd want to use EBCE is if you're a significant net consumer on the year.

For example, if your solar generates 6,000 kWh but your house uses 10,000 kWh per year, then PG&E will shock you at your true-up time with a true-up worth the 4,000 kWh that you were in consumption deficit (at whatever TOU rate you used this energy from them). That type of one-time-shocker bill is not cool.

But with EBCE, they charge you the generation consumption deficit for the month it is incurred during the year. So the annual true up shock is diminished. You'd still get a PG&E shock on transmission and other PG&E fun stuff at true-up though.

If you're a net generator (like you produce 12,000 kWh but only used 10,000 kWh), EBCE uses the same surplus reimbursement rate that PG&E uses. So you'd get the same net dollar amount of value (either as a bill credit or a check) regardless of who you were on.

The CCA MCE that I am on actually doubles PG&E's surplus reimbursement rate. So there's a teeny benefit going with them if you're a net generator. But MCE charges more for generation energy than PG&E, so it's less attractive if you're a net consumer with MCE.
 

getakey

Active Member
Jan 28, 2020
1,497
483
95762
ok thanks for the replies everyone... too bad. well, my original true-up was in november so maybe i'm looking at september now.

@holeydonut i deliberately opted out of CCA just to keep things simple during this powerwall installation. don't know if i will eventually switch. i'm not sure if EBCE pays out excess NEM credits even when generation is less than consumption; that would probably be the only reason for me to switch.

rob
I added PWs to existing PVs and my trueup changed from July to early May. That caused my true up to miss my highest producing months and I got a ~$500 bill compared to much lower if I had a full 12 months.
 

astrorob

stealth performance M3
Aug 27, 2014
494
122
oakland, ca
For example, if your solar generates 6,000 kWh but your house uses 10,000 kWh per year, then PG&E will shock you at your true-up time with a true-up worth the 4,000 kWh that you were in consumption deficit (at whatever TOU rate you used this energy from them). That type of one-time-shocker bill is not cool.

But with EBCE, they charge you the generation consumption deficit for the month it is incurred during the year. So the annual true up shock is diminished. You'd still get a PG&E shock on transmission and other PG&E fun stuff at true-up though.

yes - i've had solar since 2015 and my worst "shocker" bill was about $1000. i don't live hand to mouth though so its really no problem paying this amount all at once. usually my true-ups came in at +/- $200, but in 2020 i decided to run 5 machines nonstop on [email protected] and BOINC and that cost me some coin.

EV2 is going to be another kettle of fish though, i will definitely be paying more and more consistently than under EV, even with the powerwalls.
 

Merrill

Merrill
Jan 23, 2013
4,076
1,560
Sonoma, California
I had 2 PW’s added to my existing solar in February, my pto was March 1st. They pushed me from E6 to TOUC and forgot to continue my CCA had to call to get that back, it has been 4 months and finally got the true up this month. Last true up was February. So to say the least it has been a mess including the paired storage black and white from PG&E for delivery charges, good luck understanding this bill. I’m hoping that since everything is back to normal my July bill will be straight forward, not holding my breath.
 

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