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Are these operating modes possible?

arnolddeleon

Supporting Member
Jul 21, 2012
842
910
SF Bay Area
I don't think that will do what I want.
It is still set to peak from 4pm to 9pm so it will still divert all solar to the grid during that period. I want the house to be the priority during that period with the excess going to the grid during that period.
I want all power to come from the grid after 9pm.

Basically, I'd like the system to act like it was solar with no batteries with the following exceptions:

1) During the peak hours of 4pm to 9pm the Powerwalls supplement any house demands that the solar can't provide.

2) The following morning, any excess solar energy that the house doesn't consume is used to recharge the batteries. However, if the system recognizes that the Powerwalls won't get fully recharged before the next 4pm peak start, it prioritizes recharging the Powerwalls over house consumption.
As @h2ofun suggested, lets ditch peak

How about this:

part peak: 4:00 pm to 9:00 pm
off peak: 9:00 pm to 4:00 pm

Balanced mode (so it self consumes during off peak)
 

RKCRLR

Member
Apr 13, 2020
437
171
Garden Valley, CA
As @h2ofun suggested, lets ditch peak

How about this:

part peak: 4:00 pm to 9:00 pm
off peak: 9:00 pm to 4:00 pm

Balanced mode (so it self consumes during off peak)
I'm going to try this with Cost Savings mode. I did a quick test and part peak was acting like peak. I'll let it go longer at 4pm unless I see something really unusual (like charging from the grid or sea-sawing back and forth between charging and discharging).

I don't want Balanced mode since it discharges the Powerwalls during off-peak periods. If they had an option to prevent discharging during off peak then Balanced would probably be best for me.
 

RKCRLR

Member
Apr 13, 2020
437
171
Garden Valley, CA
hmm. When I added PWs, they reset my true-up which gave me an $800 charge that I will never recover. It changed my true-up from July to May and I missed my 2 biggest solar credit months
I didn't get Powerwall PTO until September. However, my Powerwalls were online since the install (that's the way they did it).
 

tomuo

Member
Mar 15, 2021
35
10
Los Angeles, CA
From what I understand, self-powered will use the Powerwalls at night which I don't want to do. And there is no option for peak periods, and I definitely don't want to draw from the grid during peak periods unless I've hit my reserve.
How about empirically setting the reserve % to the level you normally discharge to at the end of peak time. That puts an end to the Battery's "day".
 

RKCRLR

Member
Apr 13, 2020
437
171
Garden Valley, CA
How about empirically setting the reserve % to the level you normally discharge to at the end of peak time. That puts an end to the Battery's "day".
That's pretty much how I have it set now with peak ending at 9pm and my reserve set at 50%. On the hottest or coldest days it just about makes it through peak. Then on milder days it stops discharging at 9pm with more SOC that is carried to the next day.

But I don't understand how you think that would help. I'm trying to minimize the cycles on the battery and NBCs.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
2,684
492
auburn, ca
As @h2ofun suggested, lets ditch peak

How about this:

part peak: 4:00 pm to 9:00 pm
off peak: 9:00 pm to 4:00 pm

Balanced mode (so it self consumes during off peak)
No, I ditched part peak. I am peak and off peak only, balanced

peak.jpg
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
2,684
492
auburn, ca
Peak and off peak only has little different between balanced and cost savings other than charging priority. The only way you really get a difference between the two modes is during partial peak.
Why do I need any difference. Batteries and solar are keeping me off grid as much as possible. I sent back 100% of solar after 3, if not some before, for max price. How could I do any better than what I am doing?
 

arnolddeleon

Supporting Member
Jul 21, 2012
842
910
SF Bay Area
The problem as I see it come from trying to meet both of these requirements:

Never discharge during off peak
Export excess only during peak

and how they interact with Balanced vs Cost Savings. Never Discharge during off peak Cost Savings will do. Export only excess during peak I've only managed with part peak using Balanced. I've pushed some of peak hours into part peak to get more self consumptions. The difference is I don't care about discharging during off peak because I'll take the the NBC win versus over reducing cycling of the battery which the OP also wants to achieve. The last configuration I suggested has a non zero chance of discharging during off peak but I think it will be the closest to what the OP wanted.
 
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tomuo

Member
Mar 15, 2021
35
10
Los Angeles, CA
That's pretty much how I have it set now with peak ending at 9pm and my reserve set at 50%. On the hottest or coldest days it just about makes it through peak. Then on milder days it stops discharging at 9pm with more SOC that is carried to the next day.

But I don't understand how you think that would help. I'm trying to minimize the cycles on the battery and NBCs.
Reducing NBCs by any amount over what you get via self-powered requires you use the battery though, so the realistic target has to be minimizing the depth of the charge / discharge cycles, or the time spent at 100%.
Internally though, 100% is not 100% of cell capacity, all EV cars and Residential Batteries will be hiding the top few percent and bottom few percent so the real life-sapping charge levels aren't met.
The only way to avoid battery use and avoid NBCs is to use the power as its generated, i.e. plan any heavy usage for the middle of the day.
I set the AC to pre-cool the house from Noon to before the peak, and set it higher during peak, which has this effect, but some people prefer tight temp control.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
2,684
492
auburn, ca
Reducing NBCs by any amount over what you get via self-powered requires you use the battery though, so the realistic target has to be minimizing the depth of the charge / discharge cycles, or the time spent at 100%.
Internally though, 100% is not 100% of cell capacity, all EV cars and Residential Batteries will be hiding the top few percent and bottom few percent so the real life-sapping charge levels aren't met.
The only way to avoid battery use and avoid NBCs is to use the power as its generated, i.e. plan any heavy usage for the middle of the day.
I set the AC to pre-cool the house from Noon to before the peak, and set it higher during peak, which has this effect, but some people prefer tight temp control.
i just set ac and it. life is too short to spend time trying to always save little money
 
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RKCRLR

Member
Apr 13, 2020
437
171
Garden Valley, CA
I'm going to try this with Cost Savings mode. I did a quick test and part peak was acting like peak. I'll let it go longer at 4pm unless I see something really unusual (like charging from the grid or sea-sawing back and forth between charging and discharging).

I don't want Balanced mode since it discharges the Powerwalls during off-peak periods. If they had an option to prevent discharging during off peak then Balanced would probably be best for me.
Well, that didn't work. Cost Saving Peak and Shoulder appear to operate the same with regards to sending all solar to the grid. I also tried setting Shoulder to 4pm to 8pm and Peak to 8pm to 9pm. Same results during Shoulder.

I'll give Balanced a try again to see just how bad it discharges the Powerwalls during Off-Peak.
 
Mar 15, 2021
208
83
California
Well, that didn't work. Cost Saving Peak and Shoulder appear to operate the same with regards to sending all solar to the grid. I also tried setting Shoulder to 4pm to 8pm and Peak to 8pm to 9pm. Same results during Shoulder.

I'll give Balanced a try again to see just how bad it discharges the Powerwalls during Off-Peak.
Use balance and raise your reserve level and it won't discharge during off peak (or discharge very little)

But Yes, Cost savings and balanced act exactly the same during peak. Set part of your peak to partial peak during the peak period in balanced and it will behave as you want it to. Then after you determine how much your PW discharges at the end of the peak period, change your reserve to match that or just a bit lower than that. This way it won't discharge or discharge very little during the off peak time
pw.JPG
 

RKCRLR

Member
Apr 13, 2020
437
171
Garden Valley, CA
I have my reserve set to approximately match the end of peak on the highest demand days. However, about half the days in a year my demand is only about half my reserve. My concern is those days the Balanced mode will try to discharge to the reserve limit during those days. Additionally, I had previously observed some see-sawing in the morning where the battery would charge from solar and then discharge again during the off peak period.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
2,684
492
auburn, ca
I have my reserve set to approximately match the end of peak on the highest demand days. However, about half the days in a year my demand is only about half my reserve. My concern is those days the Balanced mode will try to discharge to the reserve limit during those days. Additionally, I had previously observed some see-sawing in the morning where the battery would charge from solar and then discharge again during the off peak period.
Here is what is going on in balanced for me now. My reserve is at 10%. But, now when I get up, the battery at about 40%, is no longer running the house, the grid is! So, it has enough smarts to know what it thinks it needs to charge back to 100% before 3, rather than go to reserve. Pretty cool
 

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