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Are we all gluttons for punishment?

I absolutely love my Tesla. So much so, that I ordered a second Model 3. But there is a concerning amount of incompetence at the service centres. I got my first Model 3 July 2018. Multiple defects: side panel bubbles, horn leather scratched, rear window scratched, Frunk paint defect, cosmetic defect on the chrome dash, and some trim fit issues. Pointed these out to the delivery specialist. Response was basically: reject the delivery and risk not getting a second car in time to take advantage of the Ontario rebate ($14k) or accept and we will fix it all. Ok, I'd read that Teslas are frequently imperfect, but Tesla will make it right. Fair enough. I waited patiently for months to be contacted... nothing. Had frequent LTE connection losses, and that took a month or two of back and forth emails to fix. Other than that, nothing was addressed. Fast forward to February 2019, when I have to call for urgent service because I'm stuck at a supercharger with the plug not releasing. Person on the other end of the line explains the manual release, tells me I should have the charge port replaced with a newer version, and expresses surprise when I mention how long it's been with no word on repair progress of other issues from delivery. Ultimately end up driving 2 hours to Toronto, and passing by the Tesla service centre to speak to someone in person. That gets the ball rolling. A few weeks later, and I've got an appointment to apparently fix everything. They take the car for a week. They add around 200km of driving to drive the car to a body shop and back.

Things fixed: frunk, bubbles on interior door panel, scratched glass, charger port, and supposedly the chrome trim. Except the chrome trim looks the same as it did before. Yet there it is, on the work order: wood dash replaced. Despite the week of service, they tell me that the scratched horn is part of the air bag, and they don't have any in stock. I'll have to come back. About a month passes, and still nothing. I reach out again, and just get reassurances that once something is available I'll be contacted. A few days later, someone calls and says they've got the airbag in stock. Book me in for a Saturday appointment 2 weeks away. 2 days before the appointment, I get another call telling me they don't do this type of work (apparently airbags are complicated) on weekends. I change the appointment to Tuesday. Take the car in on Tuesday, point out that the chrome dash defect is unchanged. They tell me they've got that part in stock, and will change it in addition to the airbag. I wait around for a few hours at the service centre, and am given my car supposedly fully fixed. I need to get back home 2hrs away for evening work. I hop in the car, and the horn/airbag is exactly the same! I point it out to the service people... turns out they replaced the WHEEL, not the airbag. How does that happen?? There was nothing wrong with the steering wheel! Meanwhile, they have also checked and 'switched out' something that needed changing in the charge port as per some internal recall. I get back to town, go to work, plug my car in the next day, only to find I cannot unplug the charger. Whatever they've changed as part of a recall, has broken the latch on the charge port.

I book another service, and request mobile support instead of a 400km round trip. Sure thing. Mobile team reaches out and says it'll be up to 3 weeks until they can send someone my way. So now I have to manually release my charger every morning from the trunk. For 3 weeks. While I wait for them to fix something that wasn't broken to start off with. And still wait for them to fix all the things that were wrong with the car when I got it.

I'm at a loss of what to do. So I ordered a second Model 3... Amazing car, and despite all the issues, I'm ready to be an all-electric all-Tesla household.

Lesson learned: ANY defect is getting an instant rejection. I want a perfect car to start off with, because the service aspect is completely incompetent. AND it's wasting tons of money for the company I imagine. Is there fraud happening? (ie. my dash that was supposedly replaced but wasn't replaced the first time?). How much is it costing the company to replace things unnecessarily? That's to say nothing of the customers they're pissing off.
 
How much is it costing the company to replace things unnecessarily?
I've wondered this myself. I did an internet search and found this:
fig7.png

Warranty Accruals per Vehicle Sold, 19 July 2018

Tesla's Q1 financial statement shows $54 million in warranty costs incurred in Q1 2019 vs. $45 million in Q1 2018. It seems like they must be making progress since they have way more cars under warranty now than a year ago. Honestly this is way less than I expected given how crowded the service centers are! I agree that it's not worth the hassle to accept a car that needs to go back to the service center.
Screen Shot 2019-05-18 at 11.45.48 AM.png
 
I've wondered this myself. I did an internet search and found this:
View attachment 409281
Warranty Accruals per Vehicle Sold, 19 July 2018

Tesla's Q1 financial statement shows $54 million in warranty costs incurred in Q1 2019 vs. $45 million in Q1 2018. It seems like they must be making progress since they have way more cars under warranty now than a year ago. Honestly this is way less than I expected given how crowded the service centers are! I agree that it's not worth the hassle to accept a car that needs to go back to the service center.View attachment 409290
The problem with that there graph is they're comparing warranty accruals for +/-$100k cars Tesla sells to warranty accruals for +/-$35k cars Ford/GM sell. What they should be presenting is warranty accruals divided by average selling price per car.

It still won't look good for Tesla because they use the service centers for QA instead of doing it at the factory or dealer, but it'll at least be a reasonable comparison. The only thing they could do to make Tesla look worse is to look at "Automated Driver Assistance Warranty Accruals per Vehicle Sold" because Ford/GM sell and offer a fraction of what Tesla does in terms of automated driver assistance and would therefore spend less on warranty accruals for what they offer (more or less nothing).
 

qdeathstar

Completely Serious
May 17, 2019
4,331
4,500
VB
I have to agree just from my experience picking up my model three. The person who greeted me was friendly and a felt like wanted to do good but she had no idea who anything worked. She literally tried to show me a feature and when it wasn’t working she said “I have no idea why that doesn’t work” on a couple of things.

The things that didn’t “work” was some sort of lighting bolt on the touchscreen that she thought was supposed to inform me me of superchargers around me. Her thought was that it wasn’t working because I had a model three and it wasn’t free to charge at superchargers (which is incorrect, since everyone has to pay at some point and Tesla makes some revenue from the stations and its ultimately in their interest for us to use them) and the other issue was that the update “changes” screen wouldn’t show up and she had no idea why.

It’s not huge things really but it made it apparent that there is not much training, despite the enthusiasm.


Owning a Tesla is ultimately an adventure. If you weren’t looking for an adventure a traditional auto manufac
 
Apparently the Tesla Model 3 customer retention isn't what they focus in, all they are doing now is to focus on sales.

I agreed that if the car is beyond the shape that you can accept on delivery date, best is to reject it and look for another one. Tesla isn't any new startup anymore and they need to act like a typical car manufacture in order to thrive.
 
Note to the old car companies:

I will never buy from a dealer.
I will demand FULL software updates as needed.
I will only use Simple outside charging services (no freaking ChargePoint - you never know what hoops to connect) - use only plug and charge.
I will only want a car that is BUILT to last 500K miles!
I will only want a battery to at least last 500K with limited degradation (20-30%).
I will only want a car that will IMPROVE over time.


Why settle for the old world when newer is much better. I am no longer buying a 35mm film. I am no longer using Dial-up AOL. I am no longer filing taxes by hand. I am no longer taking a train across country. I am no longer waiting for 8 pm to watch a TV show on live TV.

Tesla is an American Company and they are leading the way to change the world.
 
Note to the old car companies:

I will never buy from a dealer.
I will demand FULL software updates as needed.
I will only use Simple outside charging services (no freaking ChargePoint - you never know what hoops to connect) - use only plug and charge.
I will only want a car that is BUILT to last 500K miles!
I will only want a battery to at least last 500K with limited degradation (20-30%).
I will only want a car that will IMPROVE over time.


Why settle for the old world when newer is much better. I am no longer buying a 35mm film. I am no longer using Dial-up AOL. I am no longer filing taxes by hand. I am no longer taking a train across country. I am no longer waiting for 8 pm to watch a TV show on live TV.

Tesla is an American Company and they are leading the way to change the world.

From what I see locally, Tesla tries to make the car sales experience simplified, and portrayed the car sales experience from Tesla is straightforward and nothing hidden. But from what I see in the past 3 months, the price of the Tesla (in particular SR+) fluctuates way too much (Elon tweet about 3% price increase, then increase it for few weeks and later price "increased again but included autopilot") and worst someone that didn't purchased the autopilot and they end up scoring the new autopilot. In conclusion the whole car buying experience is nothing better than buying it from dealership (Toyota/Honda) and the sales adviser should requires more training (They think the speaker counts for Partial Premium is same as Premium)

As for the "Bult to last 500K miles/degradation" only time can tell, we can revisit this few years later when the model 3 are few years old. All i know is that their QA for the car is sub par (panel gap, fitment, alignment with windshield, etc) and they needs to improve in order to reduce warranty visit. I don't have any warranty visits with my Prius and I'm very comfortable to keep driving it even the warranty expires.

Regarding spare parts availability, if my car needs a bumper, a hood, or windshield due to a very minor fender bender, local body shop stated that they can take as long as a month or two to get the parts in (Vancouver Canada) . No aftermarket body parts available yet but i hope that would change in the future.

In conclusion, there are lots of things Tesla can learn from the traditional car makers (Toyota/Lexus/Honda) with the reliability, customer service, sales strategy) and keep on innovation as the way it is now, but don't ever over promise or misinform everyone.
 
The problem with that there graph is they're comparing warranty accruals for +/-$100k cars Tesla sells to warranty accruals for +/-$35k cars Ford/GM sell. What they should be presenting is warranty accruals divided by average selling price per car.

It still won't look good for Tesla because they use the service centers for QA instead of doing it at the factory or dealer, but it'll at least be a reasonable comparison. The only thing they could do to make Tesla look worse is to look at "Automated Driver Assistance Warranty Accruals per Vehicle Sold" because Ford/GM sell and offer a fraction of what Tesla does in terms of automated driver assistance and would therefore spend less on warranty accruals for what they offer (more or less nothing).
On the other hand I wonder how Tesla calculates warranty costs incurred. Since they're not actually paying a third party it seems like there's a lot of room for accounting shenanigans.
 
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afadeev

Member
Feb 28, 2019
942
1,171
NYC
Lesson learned: ANY defect is getting an instant rejection. I want a perfect car to start off with, because the service aspect is completely incompetent.

+1.
Having spent ~2 months getting a simple bumper scratch handled by Tesla SA (everything else checked out), I would STRONGLY second this recommendation.

It just is not worth the time and aggravation managing remediation of issues that any automaker or a service center should have handled during pre-delivery prep.


From what I see locally, Tesla tries to make the car sales experience simplified, and portrayed the car sales experience from Tesla is straightforward and nothing hidden.

I believe the real motivation was to cut out ~20% margin loss to the dealer network.
I don't know how much of that was actually achieved, as Service Center network costs serious money, and the lack of QA at the factory and at SC's has resulted in above industry average warranty overhead.

In conclusion, there are lots of things Tesla can learn from the traditional car makers (Toyota/Lexus/Honda) with the reliability, customer service, sales strategy) and keep on innovation as the way it is now, but don't ever over promise or misinform everyone.

True.

I've bought EVs and ICE vehicles before, and will buy both types in the future.
I do enjoy Tesla's product immensely, but their service support infrastructure leaves a lot to be desired.

Of all the brands of vehicles I've bought since college, Tesla's service and sales experience would come at the bottom of "I want to repeat that" list.

a
 
+1.
Having spent ~2 months getting a simple bumper scratch handled by Tesla SA (everything else checked out), I would STRONGLY second this recommendation.

It just is not worth the time and aggravation managing remediation of issues that any automaker or a service center should have handled during pre-delivery prep.




I believe the real motivation was to cut out ~20% margin loss to the dealer network.
I don't know how much of that was actually achieved, as Service Center network costs serious money, and the lack of QA at the factory and at SC's has resulted in above industry average warranty overhead.



True.

I've bought EVs and ICE vehicles before, and will buy both types in the future.
I do enjoy Tesla's product immensely, but their service support infrastructure leaves a lot to be desired.

Of all the brands of vehicles I've bought since college, Tesla's service and sales experience would come at the bottom of "I want to repeat that" list.

a

Tesla salesman really sounds like your best friend when you first step into the showroom. They can promise you the moon but at the end they are just your typical drinking buddy (They are not well knowledgeable with the car, and they are not held accountable when you found out they misinform/mislead/lie you). Never trust anything the Tesla salesman but probably this experience is isolated in my area as I don't have experience with Tesla Salesman elsewhere.
 
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Matt L

Active Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,050
1,685
OK USA
I've wondered this myself. I did an internet search and found this:
View attachment 409281
Warranty Accruals per Vehicle Sold, 19 July 2018

Tesla's Q1 financial statement shows $54 million in warranty costs incurred in Q1 2019 vs. $45 million in Q1 2018. It seems like they must be making progress since they have way more cars under warranty now than a year ago. Honestly this is way less than I expected given how crowded the service centers are! I agree that it's not worth the hassle to accept a car that needs to go back to the service center.View attachment 409290


There are significantly more Tesla’s in service in 19 than 18. Also, ~90% of Tesla’s sold in those years were on a brand new product line.

I’m not sure either of your data points are very meaningful.
 
Tesla salesman really sounds like your best friend when you first step into the showroom. They can promise you the moon but at the end they are just your typical drinking buddy (They are not well knowledgeable with the car, and they are not held accountable when you found out they misinform/mislead/lie you). Never trust anything the Tesla salesman but probably this experience is isolated in my area as I don't have experience with Tesla Salesman elsewhere.

Lets be fair, there are more than 3,453 old dealerships and they ALL have liars and bad seeds. They escape forums like this because the common buyer KNOWS that they can’t do much about it.

Not everyone in this world is BAD. Only a few. Everyone tries as best as they know.
 

Leafdriver333

Somewhat Active Member
Mar 21, 2019
1,071
908
usa
At other dealerships, negotiation is always on the table. At Tesla store, they do not budge on the price. (you can make phone call to order and they may give you discount)
And the other car manufacturers do not fluctuate the price. And it doesn't matter if they did because I will be negotiating anyway.
But Tesla changes price like a girl changes her clothes. And it is not negotiable when you walk in.
And the Tesla people are clueless of what Elon will say next.
So Tesla buyers feel like they have been lied to when the price drops 3 days after they take delivery of the car.
 
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[QUOTE="Dante, post:
Lesson learned: ANY defect is getting an instant rejection. I want a perfect car to start off with, because the service aspect is completely incompetent. AND it's wasting tons of money for the company I imagine. Is there fraud happening? (ie. my dash that was supposedly replaced but wasn't replaced the first time?). How much is it costing the company to replace things unnecessarily? That's to say nothing of the customers they're pissing off.[/QUOTE]

While I understand the "instant rejection" attitude, I have serious reservations about applying that here in Europe. As it is my car has taken some six months since configuration to arrive, and three years since reservation. If I reject it due to a couple of repairable issues I will be shunted to the back of the queue and could wait months before a replacement vehicle is shipped.
On the other hand the nearest service centre is some 500km away and I can't see many mobile service vehicles on the ground in Europe.
So what to do?
 

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