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Are we Really Really Saving Money owning a Tesla?

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No, I can absolutely confirm I am not saving money.

But that's because I've wrapped it, ceramic coat, chrome delete, summer wheels and tires, lowering springs, spoiler, radar detector hardwire, tint, and some other goodies coming soon.

day to day operating cost to drive it? sure, I'm saving money. overall? counting mods? NNNNEEWWWWPPP. oh well. it's called disposable income for a reason.
 
I would just like to note that this is a completely useless thread that only promotes arguments and useless back and forths. Everyone's situation is different and there are way too many variables.

A better alternate to this topic would have just been a poll, Are you saving money owning a tesla, yes/no

Just my 2 cents(since I am saving money). :)
 
You can’t compare MPGe to MPG. You can only compare mpg to mpg or mpge to mpge.

You can compare your own numbers based on local gas and electricity prices. For me, where I live, Model 3 is around the same cost per mile as a 30 mpg car of the same size. And no, that 30 mpg car would probably not accelerate so fast nor would I chew threw tires as fast because of it.
What Wh/mi are you using to come up with this equivalency?
 
Charging losses are WAY more than 5%

Supposedly this article (reference elsewhere on this forum) says they measured 83.3% efficient. They might be factoring in REAL kWh used vs miles driven which would include everything (pre heat, phantom, charging efficiency etc.)

Monthly Update for January 2018 - 2017 Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test

Their 83.3% measurement includes more losses than just the charging inefficiency. They compared total kWh at the wall (read from their kWh meter at the wall charger) with total kWh used by the drive motor (read off the Model 3 consumption values in the trip meters). That difference includes the following losses:

- On-board AC-DC charger losses
- Battery storage and retrieval chemical and thermal losses
- Accessory losses (A/C, Heat, DC-DC converter, all internal computers/power windows/etc.) [This is the biggest one]

Out of the 16.7% in losses that they recorded (100-83.3) that breaks down as follows:

- On board AC-DC charger losses ~ 6-7 %
- Battery storage and retrieval chemical and thermal losses ~ <1%
- Accessory losses (A/C, Heat, DC-DC converter, all internal computers/power windows/etc.) ~ 9-10%

To measure the AC-DC charger losses independently, they would have had to compare wall kWh with battery kWh by reading the battery voltage and current values from the CAN bus. This is possible in the Model S/X with a hacked MCU, but has not yet been done on the Model 3.

A somewhat less accurate, but possible way, to do it is to compare wall kWh with estimated battery kWh using the battery charge % and the known battery size and degredation. That method can be done with the Model 3 and will come out in the single-digit % range.
 
What Wh/mi are you using to come up with this equivalency?

At about 250 wh/m average and factoring in charging losses brings that to about 277 wh/mi.
It's because electricity is expensive and gas is cheap where I live. For some folks they might equate to 150 mpg.

Gas prices don't span such a wide range say $2.00 to $4.00 (2x). But electric rates could be from $0.06 to $0.42 / kWh (7x)

So we have a range of 14x of the possible difference in fuel costs. So for some folks that drive a lot with expensive gas and cheap electricity it's a big savings. For folks with expensive electricity and cheap gas, you can lose.

This thread is not useless. A lot of potential buyers read this thread. And to be honest I went in thinking I would save money. I actually do because I have Solar. But Solar is not FREE. I paid $40K for it up front. The rule of thumb to use for Solar is $0.08 / kWh (by amortizing the cost over 20 years). But if I had to pay the normal rates I would NOT save money in MA. Couple co-workers did the math and quickly realized it didn't make sense for them (cost savings wise).

But if all I cared about was money I could have invested $40K for 20 years and probably got way more money out of it.

And some folks say "I charge at work for free". Lucky you. Someone is paying for it. And if some new potential buyer is reading this I don't think they need to read if they will save money if they know they can charge for free.

Don't get me wrong there are many other reasons to own a Tesla. I'm all in and picking up an X tomorrow. And getting a Volt delivered in a couple weeks. You can take a wild guess at which one will "Save Money".

But new buyers should run the numbers locally and make sure they know how much they will be "saving".
 
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I honestly don’t think we save much driving Tesla. It’s too early to tell what problems we would get in the model 3. Everyone thinks just because we have less maintenance, it would mean we save more money. They don’t factor in that everyone overcharges to fix a Tesla. Seen multiple model s with ridiculous amount of problems and to be fair, some were early models. At the end of the day, I plan to drive this car that I enjoy very much not for the savings but because it makes a smile in my face and trade it in before those problems start. Will most likely be another Tesla too.

Yup. What's an out-of-warranty rear drive unit failure going to cost, for example? Because they're going to happen, and aren't going to be cheap or fun.
 
Yup. What's an out-of-warranty rear drive unit failure going to cost, for example? Because they're going to happen, and aren't going to be cheap or fun.

And that never happens. But to be fair those are warrantied for 8 years 120K miles.

What is also a factor is there is no Service Plans available on the Model 3 (plenty of other expensive stuff to break).
So in my mind that puts a cap on how long I would own a Model 3 (and how far I would drive it). That limits your ROI too.
 
where I live, and using the car as I do, my differential fuel economy comes to about 3000$ per year (taking into account aftyer paying for the electricity required) , if i compare my model 3 to an ICE with a 8 L/100km fuel consumption.

I plan to keep the car for 10 years. That's 30,000$ in fuel economy. Substract 30k$ from the model 3 price tag, and it comes pretty cheap for what it is.
 
And that never happens. But to be fair those are warrantied for 8 years 120K miles.

Glad you mentioned this because I was thinking it was only the batteries that got the 8/120 coverage. But you're correct, the drive units are also covered 8/120. Now if I could just stop stressing about wheel choice, fit and finish issues, stinky A/C, and parting with my hard earned $50K, I'd place my order today!
 
I have saved a large amount of money. Have chimed in before but lets look at my figure

This is comparing a Tesla P100DL to a Supercharged Jeep SRT.

Over 60,000 Kms on my P100D now.

Model S P100DL
Maintenance & carrying cost
Gas - 0
Brakes - 0
Oil changes - 0
Supercharging charges to date - 0
Home charging installation
Including Charger. - 1,500
Monthly Charging Bill Over 2 years - 2,400
Vehicle Payment at 2.49 Interest (Tesla Financing)
Over 2 years on a 8yr -37,000
_____________________________________
Total after 2 years -41,000


2014 Supercharged Jeep SRT
Maintenance & carrying cost
425 K/s per Tank @ 165 Per fill up - 23,294
Brakes 2 sets 30,00 k/s per set - 7,500
12 total @ 250.00 (5,000 k/s)Oil changes - 3,000
Transfer case Diff Service(Every 10,000 k/s) - 4,800
vehicle Payment at 4.99 Interest (Chrysler Financing)
Over 2 years on a 8yr -19,200
_____________________________________
Total after 2 years -57,784

Total savings after 2 years $16,794 CDN

Again we are only comparing the vehicle it replaced and how much money I have saved in my situation. For the record my Jeep only ran 11's at the track and my Tesla runs 10's all day long.. LOL
 
Glad you mentioned this because I was thinking it was only the batteries that got the 8/120 coverage. But you're correct, the drive units are also covered 8/120. Now if I could just stop stressing about wheel choice, fit and finish issues, stinky A/C, and parting with my hard earned $50K, I'd place my order today!

For the record my Midnight Silver Performance (Stealth) Model 3 was flawless.

Never had stinky A/C. Fit and finish was pretty darn good. 19" OEM all the way, looks nice, but not as vulnerable as the OEM 20".

Don't let efficiency get in your way of wheel choice. It's really the tires that make the difference not the wheels. It so happens they put stickier, higher performance tires on the bigger wheels. I put tires that were more efficient than the OEM 18" tire on the 19" OEM rims and got the same wh/mi I did on the 18" OEM. I stressed about switching for 6 months. Best thing I did. Car looks so much nicer than the Aero's. I saved Aero's for winter tires. The Aero's look less bad with some colors than others. The 19" OEM wheels look great on any color IMHO.
 
Don't let efficiency get in your way of wheel choice. It's really the tires that make the difference not the wheels. It so happens they put stickier, higher performance tires on the bigger wheels. I put tires that were more efficient than the OEM 18" tire on the 19" OEM rims and got the same wh/mi I did on the 18" OEM. I stressed about switching for 6 months. Best thing I did. Car looks so much nicer than the Aero's. I saved Aero's for winter tires. The Aero's look less bad with some colors than others. The 19" OEM wheels look great on any color IMHO.

Yeah, my wheel choice struggle is more about winter/potholes/bent rims than it is about efficiency concerns. I far prefer the looks of the 19's, just worried about busting up the rims on those skinnier tires.
 
You keep the car 10 years you can save with any car and if you got pre owned even more. Any car.

As for Teslas, I don’t think unless you got pre owned or the mytical $35k M3... again who do you compare to?

Yes I am saving gas, but probably 50% as electricity is going up as well in CA.

Can’t wait to afford solar panels, anyone doing Tesla $50 month plan?
 
I've had my AWD for 1 year now:

Based on my "Lifetime - Do Not Delete" trip odemeter, I put 15,469 miles on the car; used 4,369 kWh; and 282 Wh/mi (winter really hurt the rating).

Electricity cost via home charging: 4,369 kWh x 25% (charging loss efficiency, vampire drain, etc.) = 5,461 kWh x .12 (cents per kWh- my rate for charging at home) = $655 for the year

This is a significant savings from the car I traded in. My last car was a Dodge Challenger with a big HEMI engine and averaged 15 miles per gallon (had to use super unleaded, too). 15,469 miles / 15 mpg = 1,031 gallons x $3.00 per gallon (or close to it) = $3,094 in gas for the year if I still drove the Challenger.

$3,094 (Challenger fuel) - $655 (Model 3 electricity) = $2,439 saved!

Let's throw in the 3 oil changes that I would have needed in the Challenger ($180)... Now I'm up to $2,619 saved for the year!!
 
Saving money over buying a gas car with similar performance? Well probably.
I think you nailed it.

IMO, it's appropriate to place the Model 3 Performance in the same category as exotics when comparing actual performance. But not only do you get exotic car acceleration and handling, you get it in a four door sedan. I think the Porsche Panamara is pretty comparable, but the Model 3 just destroys the Panamara, while costing a fraction of the price.

Even if you compare it to a more pedestrian car like a Charger Hellcat, the 'cat comes out way more expensive, not just in initial purchase price, but the cost of fuel and maintenance. And around a road course, the 'cat is going to be behind the 3 in the twisties. At sea level, the 'cat can stay neck and neck with the 3 on the 1/4 mile, but even though the Charger is supercharged, density altitude still takes its toll, as the compressed charge is hotter, causing the 1/4 mile time to drop with increased altitudes and temperature. The 3 couldn't care less about such things.

So what are you comparing it against?

If you're comparing a Model 3 LR AWD against a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry? No, you're probably not going to end up saving any money during the typical 3-5 years that people own one car. The initial purchase price of the 3 is so much higher than the Accord or Camry that you just won't own it long enough to recoup the difference in price of gas vs. electricity. Plus, the two Japanese cars are so dead reliable that maintenance costs won't help the Model 3's cause here, either. But if you drive a lot and keep the Tesla longer than the average American, you can tip the scale in favor of the Tesla.

But it would also be appropriate, if you're comparing performance, to throw the American muscle cars into the mix, as their performance is similar to the LR AWD. Camaro, Charger, Challenger, Mustang... Yeah, the Tesla is going to save you money vs. American muscle. And no, I don't think the lower end trim levels of those cars apply, as their performance is just too weak to put up against a LR AWD.

If you're comparing a Model 3 SR+ vs those same two Japanese beauties (no, I'm not being sarcastic... I love the Accord and the Camry both. My last car was an Accord), then the numbers are going to be a bit closer, and depend on how much you drive. I think most people would end up saving at least *some* money owning the Tesla (and they'll have a lot more fun while driving, too).

If you're comparing a Model 3 Performance against equivalent performance cars, then my answer would be yes, you are definitely saving money with the Tesla. Not only are you paying a lot less up front, but the exotics (and other cars of mostly equivalent performance) are going to eat your lunch with maintenance costs. Not to mention the way they drink Premium fuel at a prodigious rate.

Not an easy question to give a blanket answer to. Each person must decide for themselves what Tesla they are considering, and what other cars they will be comparing the Tesla to. Run the numbers as best you can, then decide. But will you allow the numbers themselves to tell the tale? How much weight does driver enjoyment have? For someone that really enjoys cars, the smile per dollar ratio on the Tesla is very high. Try putting a dollar figure on that. :)