TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Are we seeing the end for building non-Urban superchargers in So Cal?

Discussion in 'California Supercharger locations' started by 4SUPER9, Sep 2, 2018.

  1. 4SUPER9

    4SUPER9 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,980
    Location:
    California
    I was looking at the map, and every new supercharger going back over 6 months have been the Urban-type. These include:
    • Thousand Oaks: West
    • Glendale
    • Carlsbad (under construction)
    • San Diego Downtown
    • Riverside
    • Downey-Stonewood
    • Downey-Lakewood
    • Riverside
    • San Bernadino
    • Fontana (under construction)
    In comparison, every recent old-school (“classic”?) supercharger built in recent memory has either entered construction or was permitted in 2017. These include:
    • Thousand Oaks: East: (permitted 11/2017)
    • Lake Elsinore (permitted 11/2017)
    • Santa Clarita: (permitted 10/17, construction 1/18)
    (Calabasas was permitted 10/17, with equipment on site since 11/17. We have no clue what type these are as of yet)

    So, is this the end of the classic supercharger for So Cal? Will all future ones be Urban type? I am not stating this is a bad thing. If I arrive at a crowded site, I would much rather get 72 kW compared to 30 kW. Being that most So Cal sites are over-crowded, perhaps this is the only way to go. At the same time, it was nice being at Culver City at 7am this morning getting a super fast charge.
     
    • Informative x 1
  2. cpa

    cpa Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    2,161
    Location:
    Central Valley
    You ask a good question. Rhetorical, but good. We know that Tesla has slowed down construction of Superchargers of late. This is not the first time Tesla has pulled back on new construction, only to ramp up again six-nine months later. Moreover, there is speculation that Tesla is conserving cash for the next several months to get the Model 3 production ramped up, and SC construction is dwindling for the nonce. Maybe it is coincidental; maybe not.

    Let's look at Southern California SC from a traveler's perspective, clockwise from west to south. Access to Southern California on 101 is easy with Oxnard and Thousand Oaks. From the north, we have Tejon Ranch and Sta. Clarita. From the east there are Rancho Cucamonga and Cabazon. From the south there are Temecula, San Clemente, and San Juan. The remaining Superchargers are en route on Interstate 5 and Interstate 405. (Let's ignore the congestion at many of these sites.) Those from out-of-town can easily traverse Southern California in any model with the existing Supercharger network already in place. They can spend a whirlwind week visiting all the attractions and have a Supercharger available in any direction upon departure. Enough of the SCs are proximate to attractions to allow vacationers to charge once or twice during an extended stay.

    The urban chargers are designed in my opinion more for the locals to take most of the stress off the SC. Whether they function as such, I do not know.

    I therefore conclude that it is quite possible that future construction of L3 charging stations by Tesla in Southern California will mostly be the urban types. I think that there might be two or three traditional SC locations (perhaps along Interstate 210 and SR60 for example.)
     
    • Informative x 4
    • Like x 3
  3. ucmndd

    ucmndd Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,357
    Location:
    California
    Good analysis. As a non-resident but frequent traveler to southern CA, I have what I need for long distance travel, generally making use of Tejon Ranch and Rancho Cucamonga. Then I use destination charging when I get where I’m going and leave with plenty of juice to get back to a supercharger on the outskirts. This enables me to generally ignore the perpetually overcrowded stations in the urban core.

    More urban charging stations to satisfy local demand seems like the right choice, particularly if it has the added benefit of easing congestion for the existing stations.
     
  4. ucmndd

    ucmndd Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,357
    Location:
    California
    I think we’re getting to the same point in the Bay Area as well, where I employ the same strategy. Heavily utilizing Manteca and Gilroy (though I haven’t been back to Gilroy since Casa de Fruta opened) and avoiding anything closer to the city.
     
    • Like x 2
  5. 4SUPER9

    4SUPER9 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,980
    Location:
    California
    All good points. Though, I do not think that Urban chargers are entirely intended for locals, but also, if not more so, for congested sites, no matter the reason. First, the congestion along the 5 and 405 in the OC and SD region is not to be ignored for this discussion. Traveling from LA to SD and back can hardly be considered "local" use. When I make such a trip, I call myself a traveler. If 15/16 stalls are in use, I would arrive and get a pitiful charge. If I arrive to an Urban charger, I would, OTOH, get a decent starting charge, no matter how many people are charging, and whether they are local or not (irrelevant, really). Therefore, I believe that Urban chargers are not only practical, but all we will see built in a congested areas. I just hope that new stations that are not in congested areas, stick to the classic style.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. RubberToe

    RubberToe Supporting the greater good

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,236
    Location:
    El Lay
    Maybe the new higher powered Superchargers are just around the corner, hence the lack of new installs?

    It also seems possible that they might retrofit higher powered Supercharger stalls where older ones are, and move the older ones to other locations. I'm not a power engineer, so that's just a guess.

    RT
     
    • Funny x 2
    • Like x 1
    • Love x 1
  7. 4SUPER9

    4SUPER9 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,980
    Location:
    California
    One can always dream...
     
  8. bmah

    bmah Moderator, Model S / Model X Forums

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    2,273
    Location:
    Lafayette, CA, USA
    That strategy makes sense to me. For people visiting the SF Bay Area from the north or northeast, Petaluma and Concord serve a similar role on the outskirts.

    In contrast to SoCal, we're still seeing some classic Superchargers deployed here (the two newest, San Ramon and San Jose, are both classic types).

    Bruce.
     
  9. miimura

    miimura Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    3,339
    Location:
    Los Altos, CA
    While it's true that the newest sites, San Ramon and San Jose, are classic Superchargers, the other two recent sites, East Palo Alto and San Carlos, are Urban Superchargers.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. PLUS EV

    PLUS EV Running on Empty

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2016
    Messages:
    2,792
    Location:
    Seattle
    Agree with both of you guys. You'd have to be an extremely uninformed traveler to visit the Bay Area with the plan of using Dublin to charge up or to go to SoCal with the idea of using SJC or Qualcomm. Then again, most Tesla owners aren't on these forums so I guess that could happen with some people. But for someone with a clue, it's obvious where you should charge and where you should avoid.

    Honestly, even if all the people at Dublin and Qualcomm are "locals," given the fact that they apparently burn through their entire battery frequently, they presumably have passed by a less-used supercharger that they could have charged at without waiting in line. Really don't understand who these people are that are basically beating their heads against a wall repeatedly by trying to charge at busy locations at busy times.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. thecloud

    thecloud As rhythm raced inside, the ship came alive

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,482
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    And don't forget that Los Gatos is also an urban supercharger site, despite still not being open.

    Most hotels do not have destination charging yet, and it isn't always possible to find one that does which happens to be convenient. If Tesla is using urban supercharger sites to fill in gaps between the full 120kW superchargers, that will help out visitors who don't have destination charging, and who need just enough juice to continue their journey without having to detour miles out of the way.
     
    • Like x 1
  12. NeverFollow

    NeverFollow Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,135
    #12 NeverFollow, Sep 3, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
    I wonder if this not also a demographic issue where more and more M3 get sold to less affluent customers living in dwelling units
    instead of separate houses and are not able to get their own parking spot with an electric plug.

    Those new M3 customers must be eager of finding accesble Urban super chargers instead of Outback Superchagers.

    I imagine that a multitude of Urban Superchargers will progressively be intalled as replacement to traditional gas stations.
     
  13. Doug Martoccia

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Hermosa Beach, California, United States
    It's fairly clear that "urban areas" have the most desperate need of Superchargers, which is why is makes complete sense for Tesla to prioritize these locations over less congested rural areas.
     
  14. PLUS EV

    PLUS EV Running on Empty

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2016
    Messages:
    2,792
    Location:
    Seattle
    Don't entirely disagree, but there is value in being able to drive anywhere you want. If you look at the supercharger map, there are still some pretty gaping holes.
     
    • Like x 5
  15. ucmndd

    ucmndd Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,357
    Location:
    California
    Agreed, and I think there needs to be some reasonable priority placed on those as well (North Dakota, Trans Canada hwy, and a sizable gap in West Texas come to mind immediately).
     
  16. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,286
    Location:
    Canyon Lake,CA
    Advantage to Urban style is that they can fit more of them in the same space.

    Probably get a faster charge using an unpaired Urban to using a Standard with another car pluged into it's pair.
     
  17. 4SUPER9

    4SUPER9 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,980
    Location:
    California
    How so? Seems to me the size-limiting factor is the car stall size.
     
  18. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    15,943
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    Agreed. I would guess that the advantage for Tesla is that Urban chargers cost less and their lower max rate makes them better suited for urban locations where the car owner is okay with taking a bit longer to charge, as compared to the paired Superchargers that were designed for locations where the traveler generally wants to charge as fast as possible and be on their way.

    I think we will continue to see Tesla building both types of Supercharger locations in California in the future, with the majority of the locations being Urban chargers. My guess.
     
    • Like x 2
  19. K3Man

    K3Man Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2018
    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga
    While I would like to agree with the consensus here with the continued construction of both kinds of superchargers, the still under construction Fontana site flies in the face of this sentiment. The area is largely a residential area in what most folks like to call a "bedroom" community with mostly single family residences and so anyone out here should have home charging capabilities. Also, the site is at a major thoroughfare cross-road (the 10, 60, 210 all intersecting the 15) into the high desert and to Las Vegas and so should have really been more traditional paired stalls. But nope. 24 urban pedestals.

    BUT, there are still the 12 paired superchargers in Rancho Cucamonga, only about 5 miles away, so...
     
  20. 4SUPER9

    4SUPER9 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,980
    Location:
    California
    Spot on. That is exactly the point I was making in the first place.
    Rancho Cucamonga would be an ideal place for Urban stalls, while Fontana seems better suited for the classic stalls. Yet, Fontana was still built with the new Urban chargers. Now, perhaps Tesla was thinking that Fontana might get as congested as RC and decided to go the Urban route for this purpose. So, either: 1) they chose wisely due to potential congestion, or 2) they chose poorly and this location will not see huge crowds like RC, or 3) they are just opting for Urban stalls everywhere in So. Cal now. I would like to say time will tell, but honestly, we will never know.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC