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Are winter tires necessary with the long range dual motor AWD?
- Thread starter Jayhof
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MJB-CO
Member
I bought a second set of OEM Aero wheels with TPMS from Tesla, and Michelin X-Ice tires from TireRack.
Second set of wheels so I don't have to have tires remounted twice a year - and I can do the switch myself.
Michelin X-Ice because they are excellent in snow and ice -
Second set of wheels so I don't have to have tires remounted twice a year - and I can do the switch myself.
Michelin X-Ice because they are excellent in snow and ice -
- I had them on my Audi A4 for about 8 years and have never had a problem in bad weather.
- This winter on my Model3 we had some snow and ice - didn't have a slip (while other vehicles slipping and sliding).
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
It depends on what you want from your car. AWD will NOT improve stopping in the winter compared to stock without AWD. It will improve cornering, sliding and moving from a standstill.
Personally, I care a lot about being able to stop the car all year round so I keep a set of good winter tyres.
Discount Tire will swap for free if the tires are already on a second sent of wheels. If you're swapping just the tires on the same wheels, Discount will charge for mounting and balancing.
An accident will generally cost much more in time, money, and hassle than a set of snow tires. If your snow tires help you to avoid even one accident, they've paid for themselves.
I've driven with all-season and snow tires in snow (Colorado). All season tires are generally "ok" in snow if you are careful. However, one day I almost slid into a curb with my AWD Model S while making a left turn in snow (and going pretty slow). I had to abort the turn and drive on the wrong side of the road (no cars around). After that, I started using snow tires and the car is more planted in the snow. The cost of snow tires isn't as bad as one might think (you own 2 sets of tires, but you replace them half as often as before). The main cost is the extra set of wheels, but you can sell those someday and recoup some cost. If your snow tires save you from an accident, they pay for themselves. I purchased a low profile jack so I could swap the winter/summer wheels in my own garage.
Get the tires best suited for your weather conditions. How many snow days do you get? What's the average winter temp? How are the public services, ie snow plowing, in your area? Do you really get frozen tundra like in GreenBay or the Yukon like the above video, or do you get mixed winter conditions most of the time, with a mix of slush?
I know the easy answer is always to put on the highest rated snow tires, like the Michelin X-Ice3 or Nokian Hakkapelitta R3, Blizzaks, etc., but if you see mostly mixed conditions, then a tire suited for mixed conditions might perform better like the CrossClimate+, or other 3 mountain snowflake-rated tire. I've driven RWD, FWD, AWD, 4WD, snow tires, all-season tires, etc. And, what happens is you adapt to your grip levels. You don't drive the same way on dry roads that you do on wet or snowy roads, you constantly adapt to the conditions.
One thing that bothers me is that with better grip, drivers seem to take more risks, driving faster in marginal conditions. The problem isn't the going, it's the slowing. I see lots of SUVs pass me on the road in Winter, and I see lots of SUVs turtled in the ditch. I just wonder sometimes if the feeling of safety in an SUV makes people too confident in marginal conditions. Use your best judgement in deciding on a tire. Only you know all the factors going into your decision. I always recommend the best tire you can afford, but that doesn't always mean the most expensive tire, or the tire highest-rated for the most extreme conditions if you don't often face those conditions. Get the appropriate tire for your specific weather.
Lastly, if you have a great vehicle in the snow, just be aware not everyone has a great vehicle in the snow, so if you stop suddenly to avoid a vehicle in front of you, look in your rear mirror and check to see if the car behind you can also stop to avoid you.
I know the easy answer is always to put on the highest rated snow tires, like the Michelin X-Ice3 or Nokian Hakkapelitta R3, Blizzaks, etc., but if you see mostly mixed conditions, then a tire suited for mixed conditions might perform better like the CrossClimate+, or other 3 mountain snowflake-rated tire. I've driven RWD, FWD, AWD, 4WD, snow tires, all-season tires, etc. And, what happens is you adapt to your grip levels. You don't drive the same way on dry roads that you do on wet or snowy roads, you constantly adapt to the conditions.
One thing that bothers me is that with better grip, drivers seem to take more risks, driving faster in marginal conditions. The problem isn't the going, it's the slowing. I see lots of SUVs pass me on the road in Winter, and I see lots of SUVs turtled in the ditch. I just wonder sometimes if the feeling of safety in an SUV makes people too confident in marginal conditions. Use your best judgement in deciding on a tire. Only you know all the factors going into your decision. I always recommend the best tire you can afford, but that doesn't always mean the most expensive tire, or the tire highest-rated for the most extreme conditions if you don't often face those conditions. Get the appropriate tire for your specific weather.
Lastly, if you have a great vehicle in the snow, just be aware not everyone has a great vehicle in the snow, so if you stop suddenly to avoid a vehicle in front of you, look in your rear mirror and check to see if the car behind you can also stop to avoid you.
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Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
Always get winter tires in the northeast and other snow heavy areas. They are better than all seasons for stopping distance on slush and driving in deep snow.
Michelin X-ICE Xi3 in stock size:
Michelin X-ICE Xi3 in stock size:
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
They call them all-seasons because they suck, in all seasons, when compared to season-specific tires.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
It’s no different with Model 3 or AWD vs FWD or RWD.
It depends on how important it is to YOU to get from point A to B at any given time in any condition.
Many folks have luxury if an alternative vehicle or can stay home during a storm. Others do not (doctor, nurse, emergency services, the boss, etc.).
Don’t get crappy steel wheels with hubcap. Gosh why buy a Model 3 and cheap out.
There are a bunch of threads on tire choices.
You can find someone getting rid of OEM wheels for $1000 - $1200. With an extra set of tires.
OEM tires are terrible in snow. There are other tires that can work better year round. But every tire is a trade off.
There is something to be said for how much time are you actually on snow ice and how much do you want to compromise dry road handling? That’s where performance snows come in like the packages Tesla sells. But again every tire is a trade off.
Only you can decide.
Keep in mind you save your summer rubber wear while using your winter rubber. So in the end it only cost an extra set of rims.
It depends on how important it is to YOU to get from point A to B at any given time in any condition.
Many folks have luxury if an alternative vehicle or can stay home during a storm. Others do not (doctor, nurse, emergency services, the boss, etc.).
Don’t get crappy steel wheels with hubcap. Gosh why buy a Model 3 and cheap out.
There are a bunch of threads on tire choices.
You can find someone getting rid of OEM wheels for $1000 - $1200. With an extra set of tires.
OEM tires are terrible in snow. There are other tires that can work better year round. But every tire is a trade off.
There is something to be said for how much time are you actually on snow ice and how much do you want to compromise dry road handling? That’s where performance snows come in like the packages Tesla sells. But again every tire is a trade off.
Only you can decide.
Keep in mind you save your summer rubber wear while using your winter rubber. So in the end it only cost an extra set of rims.
Chetanh
Member
Again, it depends on how much you drive and where you live but in general Winter tires + AWD will always be > AS Tires + AWD. (OFC there are exceptions like Florida, Arizona etc.) I dont know where you live but Winter tires are a must for most of North east.
Depending on how much you drive, the only extra cost you are incurring by buying Winter tires would be the cost of the additional rims. We drive between 20,000 and 25,000 miles a year. So for me it would be buying 2 summer tires over 6 years or buying 1 winter and 1 summer tires over the same period, so for me its essentially the cost of the rims
Depending on how much you drive, the only extra cost you are incurring by buying Winter tires would be the cost of the additional rims. We drive between 20,000 and 25,000 miles a year. So for me it would be buying 2 summer tires over 6 years or buying 1 winter and 1 summer tires over the same period, so for me its essentially the cost of the rims
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
A set of winter tires and rims is less than one accident in money and time. Do your cost analysis based on that assumption 
bd7349
Member
A set of winter tires and rims is less than one accident in money and time. Do your cost analysis based on that assumption
Very well put and this is exactly how I see things as well.
I've priced out a set of Continental VikingContact 7's on Tire Rack for my 19" rims and it's only $644 for all four after an $80 rebate through Tire Rack. Haven't seen too much about these tires since they were originally made for Scandinavian and Russian winter conditions (Contintental recently released these in the US to replace their other winter tires since these outperformed them), but European tire tests showed these besting the Blizzak's and Michelin X-Ice's in both deep snow and ice, so I decided to give them a shot since I plan on going up to NH and Maine a lot this winter.
A single accident from rear ending someone (which is easy if you have all seasons and hit some ice or slush) would cost more in repairs plus deductible than a single set of these tires.
voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Google says that 17% of accidents occur during winter conditions. I wonder what fraction of miles driven meet the same definition.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
More googling ... 4% of accidents are during snow/sleet road conditions. That does not sound like a lot but I attempted to put a denominator on this number. I found the average snow days by state and then weighted that number by the state population as a fraction of the US population. It works out to 0.3 snow days a year. If we treat non-snow/sleet days as the other group then the relative risk of an accident during a snow/sleet day is ~ 56x higher.
Spreadsheet
Thanks for the info on these tires, I'm getting 19's so I'll keep this in mind. A few questions for those of you who do this...
Where do you take them to get balanced and mounted, and what is the approximate cost?
How do you transport the tires? Do they all fit in the back of the 3?
Where do you store them? I have limited garage space.
Thanks!
Cars stop the same way when they have 4 wheels (assuming they all have anti-lock breaks and traction control). It does not matter how much traction you have to go (all wheel drive will give you more), all wheel drive will not help you stop any differently then 2 wheel drive (excluding the times you need to power out of a slide). Winter tires get you more traction when stopping (and starting for that matter). All wheel drive tends to make drivers over-confident as they are able to accelerate better in snow then a 2 wheel drive car. The problem is, they can't stop any better. That is why I prefer 2 wheel drive in the snow. It helps me not be be over-confident with the ability of my car to handle the icy roads when stopping.
Get winter tires!
Get winter tires!
Another vote for winter tires. I have the AWD LR M3 and put winter tires on it shortly after taking delivery in November. I drove through one snow event prior to swtiching over. The traction control on the M3 is outstanding, and will take advantage of whatever little grip is available. But slowing and turning with the all seasons in snow and ice is iffy. It is a heavy car, and physics is physics, if you don't have the grip, you won't make the turn. So I was really nervous driving with all seasons (my winter tires had not come in yet). Once I put winter tires on the M3, it transitioned into a great winter vehicle. The traction control is not overly restrictive, so the rear will kick out a little on acceleration, like my old WRX. But it is very controlled, and if you don't like that, give it less gas errr current. The ABS works really well with the snow tires. We drive back and forth to the ski areas and had no issue using the M3 all winter. Note that it is a very LOW car, so don't plan on blazing a path up an unplowed mountain road in a 12" blizzard.
In short, the snows and rims cost about 1.5 times my deductible. But when I'm running the snows I'm not running my summer tires, so it extends the life of both. So on a cost basis, its not a bad bet. More importantly, it dramatically reduces my chances of a serious accident, which hopefully will prevent injury to me or someone else.
In short, the snows and rims cost about 1.5 times my deductible. But when I'm running the snows I'm not running my summer tires, so it extends the life of both. So on a cost basis, its not a bad bet. More importantly, it dramatically reduces my chances of a serious accident, which hopefully will prevent injury to me or someone else.
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