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Are you with Musk or Hawking on AI

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by lorih, May 4, 2014.

  1. lorih

    lorih Member

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    #1 lorih, May 4, 2014
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
    I read a bit ago about Elon Musk and some other Silicon Valley people are investing in AI. I'm sure making computers more intelligent will allow development of self-driving cars (there is even a thread on this forum about AI in cars), but what I'd like to know is how people feel about AI in general.

    Are you in the Elon Musk camp? (yeah, let's move forward and help this happen) or the Steven Hawkings camp? (AI could lead to dire consequences)


    Zuckerberg, Musk Invest in Artificial-Intelligence Company - Digits - WSJ

    Stephen Hawking Warns Us All to Think Twice Before Advancing AI Technology | Geeks are Sexy Technology News

    There are so many techies here, I thought it would be interesting to poll, which side are you on philosophically?

    :smile:? :scared:?
     
  2. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    From seeing my children grow up, exploring the world, I think intelligence is inextricably* linked to a body experience. Shaping a mind takes rubbing it with reality.

    So for Douglas Adams' fictional supercomputer Deep Thought, who deducted the existence of pudding and income tax even before it was connected to its database, I don't see AI going this way. I think AI will form as an ever increasing autonomy in robotic technology. Make experiences and learn from it. Same way most science and engineering works.

    *) had to look up this word :cool:
     
  3. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    I always side with doing cool stuff.
     
  4. Skotty

    Skotty 2014 Model S P85

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    It kind of depends on what people mean when they say "AI".

    As for computers thinking for themselves, if that is even possible, I don't see that as having a lot of potential for good outcomes.

    However, I think when a lot of people talk AI, they are really just talking about complex computers that make seemingly intelligent decisions from a wide range of inputs. I don't see any problem with that.
     
  5. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    I'm all for AI. It won't be an entity but an expansion of our own minds. Kurzweil has some really good thoughts on this. So far in evolution more intelligence has never been a problem so why would it be now?
     
  6. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Hawkings. In some senses, AI is cool, but I think there's great potential for disaster if it gets out of hand, and who decides that? It'll always be "let's just go a little further" until it's too late.


    At least figure out how to download our consciousness to robot bodies so we stand a chance in the war.
     
  7. Citizen-T

    Citizen-T Active Member

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    I think people usually fear the creation of strong AI because they assume that this AI will be smarter than us. This is very unlikely in my view. Long before we get to the point that we are able to create strong AI we are going to be able to enhance our own intelligence by augmenting our brains with additional computing power and connecting them to the internet. Our AI's will be our peers.

    If you are interested in the subject, I recommend reading Ray Kurzweil's The Singularity Is Near: When Humans Transcend Biology and How to Create a Mind: The Secret of Human Thought Revealed.
     
  8. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    The thing I find most interesting/humorous about this subject is that people immediately come to the conclusion that anything we produce that thinks will quickly figure out that what we are doing is dumb, unsustainable and somewhat insane. The logical conclusion is that people are incapable of handling their own affairs and must be "handled" by the new intelligence in order to survive.

    We are smart enough to know what we are doing is dumb, smart enough to know it does not make sense yet dumb enough to keep doing it. And then we fear giving sufficient power or capability to something else that will immediately determine what we are doing is dumb and that it must be stopped. We fear our own stupidity which, to me, is somewhat humorous.
     
  9. ZsoZso

    ZsoZso Member

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    I'd like to point out the huge difference between specialized AI and AGI (Artificial General Intelligence). Specialized AI systems have been in use for decades and improving daily as technology improves. It is behind Googles self-driving cars and that's what Elon is interested in.

    On the other hand, Hawkins is afraid of AGI and warns us not to develop it. While there is some academic research being done in that area, it is very far from reaching practical levels and questionable whether or not it should be developed from a philosophical point of view.

    What I am trying to emphasize is that there is a huge difference and it requires a serious concentrated effort to implement AGI, while a specialized AI is much easier and more practical to implement and there is no "danger" that your self-driving car suddenly develops a conscience and becomes self-aware. That idea belongs to the Hollywood scripts and should remain there.
     
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  10. DonL

    DonL Member

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    AI researchers are the alchemists of the 20th/21st century. Pursuing a futile end goal but making important contributions as they do so.
     
  11. lorih

    lorih Member

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    Thanks for clarifying for the bunch. That is what I was trying to get at, but didn't do effectively. I was not asking about 'specialized AI' but now I know the phrase "AGI"..a singularity if you will that is 'self aware' through the interconnectness of all the world's supercomputers.

    There was a short TV miniseries in 2011 (available for streaming on Netflix) called "Delete". I'd classify it as "scifi thriller" movie.

    That's what I was asking about.
     
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  12. plaeuschler

    plaeuschler Member

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    That's a quote I completely disagree with. It is just a romantic thought that poeple have some special thing which makes it impossible to ever build a machine which can do the same thing.
     
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  13. ggies07

    ggies07 Active Member

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    #13 ggies07, May 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    I'm all for it, I love technology. I took a psychology class on technology my last semester in college and it was amazing. Discussing/arguing back and forth about the possibilities.

    So from this video, is this AI or AGI that is being development? I think machines WILL be on their own one day, not sure if they will be able to tell if they are smarter than us, but they will certainly be able to do things we can't.

    Skip to 3:06 to see what the machine has learned:
     
  14. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I have a different take. I think we're centuries from real AI. I don't think we even begin to understand just how complex and subtle our brains are.

    I could be wrong, of course, but to date I've seen nothing to dispel that opinion.
     
  15. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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  16. Citizen-T

    Citizen-T Active Member

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    Careful, don't draw linear conclusions in a world where computational power per dollar is growing exponentially. Do you have any idea how vastly powerful our computing resources will be in just two or three decades?
     
  17. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    #17 Johan, May 5, 2014
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
    Are you with Musk or Hawkings on AI

    Aah another Kurzweil fan? :) "The law of accelerating returns" he calls it. There is much empirical evidence of things behaving like this when a technology becomes an informational technology. AI development most certainly is at the core of IT.

    One more thing to ponder: since the birth of computers the phenomenal advances in hardware has been superseeded by only one thing: the advances in software ;)
     
  18. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    #18 doug, May 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
     
  19. lorih

    lorih Member

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    Just wanted to thank everyone for their comments, book recommendations and videos. Glad I opened this thread, keep it coming folks, very interesting topic.
     
  20. Citizen-T

    Citizen-T Active Member

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    If anyone doesn't know what we are talking about, this video is an oldie but goodie.

    Ray Kurzweil Keynote, Singularity University Executive Program Nov 09 - YouTube
     

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