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Are you with Musk or Hawking on AI

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Theoretically the discussion of an intelligence, a being, or beings, that predate us, without reference to theology or any man made religion, is not religion, and may squeeze by the censors here.

I'm afraid I disagree, on two counts. Firstly, in your earlier posting you mentioned "created" multiple times, but now you just say "predate"; any appeal to a creator is thinly disguised religion. Secondly, I would rather not discuss religion, or even lack thereof, on this forum, even in the off topic section. Please censor me!
 
I'm afraid I disagree, on two counts. Firstly, in your earlier posting you mentioned "created" multiple times, but now you just say "predate"; any appeal to a creator is thinly disguised religion. Secondly, I would rather not discuss religion, or even lack thereof, on this forum, even in the off topic section. Please censor me!


What we are alluding to is the possibility of taking this discussion full circle in that what if we are some alien version of AI created by other beings, perhaps an experiment of some sort. One can go many directions from being open to this possibility...have you heard of Human Astronaut Theory? I don't believe that is considered a religion...it's a theory about our existence being created by Aliens....or perhaps we are like their version of self learning AI that started with other beings placing our primordial ooze in a habitable planet.

there is so much we don't know about our own existence let alone what future self learning AI will evolve into.

....To completely dismiss ideas/possibilities because one assumes they are religious in nature seems ignorant to me.


as for the original question...I'm not sure Elon Musk's camp is simply just to help make this happen...does anyone know that for sure? Where is the source of Elon saying let's help make this happen? I think both Elon and Hawking may be in agreement in that both realize it could lead to dire consequences but both realize it is inevitable and that responsible nations/people should be first to creating the ASI so that it is least likely to be harmful to our existence.
 
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I'm afraid I disagree, on two counts. Firstly, in your earlier posting you mentioned "created" multiple times, but now you just say "predate"; any appeal to a creator is thinly disguised religion. Secondly, I would rather not discuss religion, or even lack thereof, on this forum, even in the off topic section. Please censor me!

I disagree with your disagreement. If for example an alien race in another dimension "created" a simulation that we are part of that has nothing at all to do with religion. Not that I think that, it's just an example. You can talk about the creation of a universe with no religious overtone, or undertones, whatsoever. I assure you I'm not trying to introduce any references to religion since I'm a life long atheist.
 
My point (perhaps missed?) is that the moment one delves into the idea of a "creator" or "designer" many people assume "God" and from there to "religion". There is the "Intelligent Design" (ID) movement who's intent (proven in a court of law...watch the excellent NOVA episode about it NOVA | Intelligent Design on Trial) was to try to put a "scientific skin" around religion so it could be considered on an equal footing with science (creationism vs evolution) and thus could be taught in public schools.

The "Flying Spaghetti Monster" (FSM) was invented as a joke and poke in the eye to the ID people using their exact same arguments and words but replacing "designer" (which in the IDers mind always meant "God") with an alien intelligence--the "Flying Spaghetti Monster". It was a very effective form of satire and cleverly exposed the ID movement as religious.

Also, the moment one says "designer" (intelligent or not) the whole argument shifts to who designed the designer? And so forth. It's "turtles all the way down" once again. (Turtles all the way down - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
 
My point (perhaps missed?) is that the moment one delves into the idea of a "creator" or "designer" many people assume "God" and from there to "religion".
That is really their own misinterpretation.

Also, the moment one says "designer" (intelligent or not) the whole argument shifts to who designed the designer? And so forth. It's "turtles all the way down" once again. (Turtles all the way down - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

I agree and that was a point I made earlier.
 
In Elon Musk's interview today on CNBC he spoke about AI and how it worries him. He invested in Vicarious to help keep an eye onAI...even said if the outcome is bad that AI would chase us down pretty quickly on Mars we had a city there by then....yikes!
 
I am glad Elon explained that the reason he invested was to 'watch' the AI development and hopefully have some input. I've recently decided on a 'blind faith' approach to life. (not religious) I figure if we are either going to destroy ourselves it will be with Global Warming or AI, and our best best to combatting that it to continue what I've been doing for the past 7 years. Cheer on Elon, invest in his companies and keep spreading the word.

Maybe we're doomed, but I feel like beside the little things I do in my every day life, that's my best bet in having some contribution to the bigger issues. I was joking about 'blind faith', because I'm pretty technical, and not religious, but some people consider the true Elon followers a cult, so I'm following my cult and hoping for the best.

:)
 
Most AI discussion seems assume that a human level or super human level of intelligence somehow necessarily implies an entity that is a person or creature-like and has intentions and foresight.

We are evolved to assume this. Both as predators and prey we've got to assume that anything that acts with intelligence has what amounts to intentions or will that might be directed against our interests.

i think Google is a superhuman AI now, just without foresight or intentionality. A better example that's quite natural is the biosphere and evolution by natural selection. A big advantage that "intelligent Design" advocates have is the evident fact that creatures are clearly products of a superhumanly intelligent designer. They are...it's just a fact that gives ID advocates a huge head start. All the evidence of biology is just that the intelligent designer is the biosphere itself acting as a massively parallel Natural Intelligence that is fabulously intelligent but utterly without foresight or any aspect of personhood or intentionality.

The idea of vast intelligence without any hint of intentionality or foresight is kinda alien to the way we are naturally inclined to think about this.

Im in the camp that thinks that any AGI that is intentional and person-like will result from uploaded human minds well before we can reverse engineer enough abstractions about how our brains work to code a fully artificial mind de novo. It seems inherently easier by brute force technical methods to just copy out the neural pattern of an existing human brain into software than to understand it well enough to recreate it's functions in the abstract from scratch.

I don't see much evidence of AI coded "organism" with foresight and intentionality even at the level of simple biology....in part because we just aren't motivated to right "wild" code that has it's own interests and is out of control.

This doesn't really make this stuff less scary, just more like "Transcendence" and less like "Skynet". Hard to say if human minds uploaded would be any less dangerous given access to superhuman speed and resources.

Another implication is that genuinely intentional organism like software minds need not be human or superhuman level to cause lots of problems. We find dealing with rats and insects pretty hard in the real world despite being much more "intelligent" in the sense being discussed. The software equivalent of rats or insects wild in the networks could be pretty troublesome too.

The good side of that is even if AGI's are as humans are to rats, they still might have trouble eradicating us :)
 
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A big advantage that "intelligent Design" advocates have is the evident fact that creatures are clearly products of a superhumanly intelligent designer. They are...it's just a fact that gives ID advocates a huge head start.

It is not a fact at all, nor is it evident, just your interpretation of existing conditions through your own viewpoint. I'd say the fact that life on this planet is suited to the parameters of this planet requires no design or intelligence, it's just an inherent fact of the available environment.