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ARG!!! Creep Failed me :( Bad Results

RDoc

S85D
Aug 24, 2012
2,723
1,572
Boston North Shore
It does seem to me that "creep" means that, when engaged, the car will move forward at a slow predefined speed when the brake isn't applied. If it was implemented as a low predefined torque, that's not at all what I would expect and seems like an odd design decision.

Every automatic I've ever had will at least hill hold or move slowly forward on a slope. It's hard to imagine what the advantage of allowing the car to roll backwards might be. The car's motion is completely under software control, so it's not like there's a mechanical clutch involved.
 

ToddRLockwood

Active Member
Sep 11, 2012
1,317
74
Burlington, Vermont
I don't believe hill-hold is part of creep. Sometimes it will hold in Creep Mode if the incline is not too steep. It would be nice for Tesla to add hill-hold in a future update.

The only car I've experienced hill-hold in is a Mini Cooper with a standard transmission. It's a pretty nifty feature in a standard.
 
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steve841

Active Member
Jan 17, 2010
1,940
648
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
so I'm a bit confused, was creep mode on or off? The way I read the OP post was that it was *on*, but enough of a decline that it still rolled backwards instead of creeping forwards.

In my case ...creep was off. Parking lot had an increasing decline that I failed to notice. Stopped to make a call... Didn't hit Park... And rolled to an abrupt stop in to the parking stop.
 

islandbayy

Active Member
Feb 25, 2013
2,650
1,024
Greendale, Wisconsin
I have to feel sorry for Tesla. Some people wanted Creep so they were given that. Then when used incorrecly for a hill holder, which it is not, they get flack!

I am not giving Tesla Flack. If you noticed, I completely admitted responsibility.

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I don't believe hill-hold is part of creep. Sometimes it will hold in Creep Mode if the incline is not too great. It would be nice for Tesla to add hill-hold in a future update.

The only car I've experienced hill-hold in is a Mini Cooper with a standard transmission. It's a pretty nifty feature in a standard.

I agree that it is not hill hold. The grade I was on was about 3%, far from a hill, but just enough go get me rolling enough where I did not quite notice as I was looking back and forth for traffic until it was too late.
 

Luder94

Member
May 27, 2013
179
6
Algonquin
As an FYI, there's a Tesla certified bodyshop in Wisconsin. The owner is a Model S owner and offers up Tesla charging to owners in the area for free. If you do frequent a body shop, may as well give another owner the business. Let me know if you need the contact info for the shop. He posts in the Midwest section of this site.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,407
7,539
Maine
It does seem to me that "creep" means that, when engaged, the car will move forward at a slow predefined speed when the brake isn't applied. If it was implemented as a low predefined torque, that's not at all what I would expect and seems like an odd design decision.

Every automatic I've ever had will at least hill hold or move slowly forward on a slope. It's hard to imagine what the advantage of allowing the car to roll backwards might be. The car's motion is completely under software control, so it's not like there's a mechanical clutch involved.

Think of auto creep as showing you how much energy is wasted by idle. My Prius creep is pretty feeble and you definitely need to apply the brake on steep hills. But the Prius has hill start assist if you press the brake firmly and hold. However, I don't use it because like wycolo I learned to drive in a stick and I use the parking-brake 2-footed hill start.
 

islandbayy

Active Member
Feb 25, 2013
2,650
1,024
Greendale, Wisconsin
As an FYI, there's a Tesla certified bodyshop in Wisconsin. The owner is a Model S owner and offers up Tesla charging to owners in the area for free. If you do frequent a body shop, may as well give another owner the business. Let me know if you need the contact info for the shop. He posts in the Midwest section of this site.


Yes, I know. I also run a body shop :wink: It would be like taking my car to a competitor (Well, actually, that's exactly what I'd be doing). No damage to anything but the plastic bumper. If it was a older car, i'd just sand it down and repaint it. On a 3 month old vehicle, ant going to happen. New bumper only.

I got a response back from ownership. First, they forwarded my problem to the engineers. Next, was told they do not provide logs to vehicle owners, only information regarding specific events. And third, my information was forwarded to one of the service centers in Chicago so that they can make a appointment for me to bring my MS in and get a estimate on all the repairs, seemingly ignoring my statement that I run a body shop and would be more then capable of doing the repair my self, and that I've already inspected the damage and determined it's cosmetic only, and that I just wanted a straight price on a bumper.
This does not bode well from a body shop standpoint. What if a customer came in with a dinged up bumper and wanted a replacement bumper..... Many of our customers, will NOT go to another body shop (and some are already putting in their reservations after me taking them for a ride, and I'm talking reservations for performance + vehicles). I can understand certain damage, where the special equipment is necessary to work on the electronics and tesla specific systems, but a simple plastic bumper....

I'm looking too far into that. I need to step back and see what all happens, that last paragraph is just a stress rant from the day. Long trying day, and tensions are high (The high heat and humidity, and my Air conditioning crapped out with a house temp of about 95 right now and 2 crabby kids that do not like the heat etc...) I'm actually thinking of putting the seats down in the back of the car, tossing a soft blanket down and sleeping in the car tonight with the AC on low. But I cant fit myself, sister n law, 2 kids and mother in law in their, so I'd end up being the one to sleep outside the car anyways..... haha.
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,526
2,994
I have to feel sorry for Tesla. Some people wanted Creep so they were given that. Then when used incorrecly for a hill holder, which it is not, they get flack!
It's clearly an authentication flaw in the Creep feature.

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Every automatic I've ever had will at least hill hold or move slowly forward on a slope.
Every vehicle I've owned or driven this was not the case. Drive in downtown Seattle if you'd like to verify that your cars do no "at least hill hold" on slopes.

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I am not giving Tesla Flack. If you noticed, I completely admitted responsibility.
The title of the thread included "Creep Failed me", which suggests otherwise. A more accurate title would be "I expected Creep to behave like Hill hold for some reason and it didn't".
 

mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,867
Toronto, ON
+1. Used it for about a month, then realized that I never really needed it.

Same here. I initially had it on, but these forums convinced me to try it off, and I haven't looked back.

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I don't believe hill-hold is part of creep. Sometimes it will hold in Creep Mode if the incline is not too great. It would be nice for Tesla to add hill-hold in a future update.

That's been my experience with ICE vehicles too. Some amount of torque is delivered, but if the hill is steep enough the car WILL roll back.
 

islandbayy

Active Member
Feb 25, 2013
2,650
1,024
Greendale, Wisconsin
Same here. I initially had it on, but these forums convinced me to try it off, and I haven't looked back.

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That's been my experience with ICE vehicles too. Some amount of torque is delivered, but if the hill is steep enough the car WILL roll back.


Please keep in mind again, this was not a Hill, it was a driveway/parking lot with a 3% grade.
 

mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,867
Toronto, ON
Please keep in mind again, this was not a Hill, it was a driveway/parking lot with a 3% grade.

Yeah, I was responding to a later comment in the thread on creep "in general". It almost sounds in your case like Creep became disabled for some reason. When I had creep turned on in my Model S, it usually would hold on something like a 3% grade. I have had both ICE cars and Model S roll back on steeper grades unless some additional "throttle" is applied.
 

islandbayy

Active Member
Feb 25, 2013
2,650
1,024
Greendale, Wisconsin
Yeah, I was responding to a later comment in the thread on creep "in general". It almost sounds in your case like Creep became disabled for some reason. When I had creep turned on in my Model S, it usually would hold on something like a 3% grade. I have had both ICE cars and Model S roll back on steeper grades unless some additional "throttle" is applied.

Ah, thanks for clarification. Thats what I was expecting. Agreed, on a steeper grade some throttle is necessary or brakes firmly pressed.
 

derekt75

Member
Jul 16, 2012
622
34
San Jose, CA
Every automatic I've ever had will at least hill hold or move slowly forward on a slope.
agree with Todd: every automatic I've had will creep forward on a flat or small slope, stay roughly in place on a medium (4%? grade), and will roll backward on a steep grade.

hill hold would be nice. In the meantime, I'm happy to two foot it on steep (>8% grade) hills.
I think they need to revise the logic that allows 100 kW of electric power and 100 kW of friction torque at the same time, but I'm glad the logic does allow me to not roll back at a traffic light in San Francisco.
 

dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S
May 17, 2009
18,278
151
Nevada
Ah, thanks for clarification. Thats what I was expecting. Agreed, on a steeper grade some throttle is necessary or brakes firmly pressed.

Have you checked with Tesla to see if they can check the logs? Maybe it told you it was in drive but was doing something else that caused you to roll backwards. Hope it gets fixed soon.
 

islandbayy

Active Member
Feb 25, 2013
2,650
1,024
Greendale, Wisconsin
Just got off the phone with Villa Park service center about 10 minutes ago. Service manager (Really nice guy, always on top of things) had a engineer check the logs, and I was indeed in drive. It's just one of those things, was delayed a bit in taking hold.
Replacement plastic bumper is going to run me $800 unpainted. Apparently they are no longer able to order them factory painted (Not too big of a deal not being painted, I can do that myself, though not as convenient). Though, $800 is out of my price range at this moment. The damage is not bad enough to warrant $800 bumper + paint. I am going to touch up the bumper tomorrow with some leftover gloss black. Wont be perfect, and I am going to ride out the winter with this one I think. Either that, or once my summer season slows down and I have time from working on customer vehicles, I will pull it off, sand it down really well smooth it with body filler and paint it.
I'm just really used to getting aftermarket bumpers for just about anything for $75-$200 :p Shell Shock if you may.
 

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