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Arizona Daily Star: Tucson's gets first public 'fast charger' for electric cars

Discussion in 'North America' started by twinklejet, Aug 16, 2013.

  1. ZBB

    ZBB Emperor

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    Time to start bugging Tesla bout a Frankenplug adapter... With 2 of these live within driving distance to me (and no Superchargers...), I'd rather have this than a CHAdeMO adapter...
     
  2. EclecticCitizen

    EclecticCitizen House call doctor for families.

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    Good news ZBB, these stations are CHAdeMO, not frankenplug. So as soon as Tesla gets the CHADeMO adapter produced, you will be able to use them. No reason to hope for a Frankenplug adapter when there's only 1 frankenplug station in the whole US right now (per other posts on TMC).
     
  3. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    These stations are dual standard (both CHAdeMO and CCS). See the company's blog.
    http://goe3charge.wordpress.com/2013/09/01/tucson-receives-first-electric-vehicle-fast-charge-station/

    There are at least 3 public CCS stations in the US (including these two goE3 stations in AZ and the evGO one in CA) and 4 others at car manufacturer locations (with the VW one in CA likely open to public usage). And I don't know how many times it's been repeated but there will be 200 installed in CA as part of the NRG settlement. SMUD in Sacramento also said they will install a bunch.

    ZBB is saying given the choice between the two adapters, he would choose CCS over CHAdeMO (I would do the same).
     
  4. EclecticCitizen

    EclecticCitizen House call doctor for families.

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    I may have misread ZBB's post, but I don't think so. He seemed to be implying that these were Frankenplug and not CHAdeMO. Like me, his priority is on immediate availability since he lives close to them. I think you're misreading the blog and article StopCrazy. These are not CCS currently but will be able to have these adapters eventually. See the company's blog and the current listings for these stations on Recargo and PlugShare (or just go there if you are close). Bruce (CEO of GoE3) told me in person at a Tesla gathering in Phoenix that they are waiting for Tesla to produce an SAE combo adapter before they offer that connection on their stations. I specifically inquired about this because the article about the grand opening at Picacho Peak (and the apps for a while) mentioned specific Tesla charging connections. He clarified it would be via SAE combo, not a Model S type connector (I don't think Tesla will license that). It's an eventual goal, but he implied it wasn't a priority. Just easy to do when they are ready though. Maybe they suddenly changed tune and added them, and maybe no one has updated the EV apps, but I seriously doubt it. It would have made more of a splash on the forums.

    So functionally, there is only 1 current publicly available SAE combo station, with hope/plans for a handful more in California soon, then a bunch after that at some point in the future. Thanks for repeating the NRG settlement involving installation of 200 SAE combo stations in CA. I have never heard that. Great for California (if it really happens)! Not much good to the rest of us now though.

    Even with the SAE J1772 combo adapter (I assume that's what you mean by CCS) being added in California, there's already lots more CHAdeMO stations in existence, including those mentioned in the article. And more are being installed every month. i.e. Fry's grocery stores and Nissan dealerships in Phoenix. goE3 plans to keep adding them across the country too.

    Is it the charging speed advantage of the SAE combo over CHAdeMo or why would you prefer it right now? I'd like to see both available, but it will be several years before SAE catches up to current CHAdeMO infrastructure in most regions. Give me a CHAdeMO for quick in-town charge now, and I'll take the SAE in 1-2 years when it's ready.
     
  5. ZBB

    ZBB Emperor

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    I posted about this prior to Tesla announcing the CHAdeMO adapter.

    Looking back on it, I didn't give any context. About the same time as this thread was created, there was another thread on GoE3s project -- where we discussed that these were dual-headed (CHAdeMO and CCS -- even though they currently only had the CHAdeMO side active/enabled with the CCS cable removed). I stopped by the Pacheco Peak GoE3 charger just over a week ago, and its still CHAdeMO-only and the CHAdeMO plug was inside a lockbox -- so it may not even be usable...)

    My comment about bugging Tesla for a Frankenplug adapter still holds -- especially considering that the CHAdeMO adapter is priced at $1k. Since the Frankenplug adapter should just be a connector adapter (similar to the current J1772 adapter), it should be much less expensive (I'm just guessing, but likely 2x the cost of the J1772 adapter -- so ~$200)

    I am considering getting the CHAdeMO adapter (I'm on the waitlist) -- but I would only need it for road trips. If CCS/Frankenplug stations start to actually show up and Tesla has an adapter, I'd be more likely toe spend ~$200 for that than $1k on a CHAdeMO adapter. The reason is simple math:
    1) We only do 1-2 road trips per year, and I do not need either of these adapters for any normal in-town commuting. On road trips, these would be for destination charging.
    2) Since I have a 60 with ~200 mile range, the equivalent cost of gas is ~$25.
    3) The $200 adapter would payback after 6 uses -- so after 2-3 road trips (a year or so)
    4) The $1k adapter would payback after 40 uses -- which would take ~15-20 road trips. I'd have to keep the car 7-10 years to get the payoff.

    If you want to debate the CHAdeMO vs CCS, please go to the appropriate thread. But for me, I'm thinking many of these units will be dual-head (especially new ones installed going forward)...
     
  6. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    I know it is not CCS (AKA SAE Combo) enabled, but I know it's almost trivial to enable it once there are cars that can use them (at least that's what goE3 has said in press releases).

    Given similar charging infrastructure, I would prefer CCS simply because Tesla's connector is so similar. Tesla already said the protocol was 100% compatible, so all that's missing is some rewiring in the adapter (similar to the current J1772 adapter). That means it'll likely be much simpler/smaller/less expensive for essentially the same capabilities (I'm even assuming there will be few 100kW CCS stations and that almost all CCS stations will be dual connector 50kW stations).

    I'm a Gen III waiter, so I'm not in a hurry for infrastructure and the current CHAdeMO lead doesn't mean much to me (2-3 years later when I actually get the car, I imagine CCS will have a much stronger hold).
     
  7. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    Just adding a single Frankenplug station beyond the current single operational demonstration unit (that is neither USA specification voltage, nor UL listed) would be a much stronger hold than it has today ;-)

    I'd be happy to put some money on a bet as to how Frankenplug will compare to Supercharger and CHAdeMO in three years. I'll even put money in an escrow account waiting for the day you specify.
     

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