ZBB
Emperor
Isn't all of Quartzsite mere seconds off the Interstate? ;0)
- - - Updated - - -
There's also the I-15 to I-40 route... Would also open up a stop for Elon at the Grand Canyon...
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Arizona Superchargers (location speculation, discussion)
- Thread starter MarkR
- Start date
Isn't all of Quartzsite mere seconds off the Interstate? ;0)
- - - Updated - - -
There's also the I-15 to I-40 route... Would also open up a stop for Elon at the Grand Canyon...
Unfortunately, that's my guess as the route he'd take. More scenic, Grand Canyon, nature, Route 66-ish and all. It will be colder and possibly snowier though.
Funny, I was imagining Forrest Gump running cross-country as I think about his trip. With a bunch of Model S' following behind him for stretches...
Maybe I'm the only one, but it seems odd to me that on the route between Phoenix and San Diego, the planned supercharger stations are so compressed between W. Phoenix and El Centro, and Tesla does not plan to build a station just east of San Diego (at least not through 2015 as that's the farthest out Tesla's SC map covers).
Given the significant increase in elevation driving through the canyon(s) as you start getting close to San Diego, and the significant amount of energy I expect that segment of the trip to consume, I personally would gladly give up one of the stations on the AZ side - like the one slotted for between W. Phoenix and Gila Bend - to have the opportunity to get a supercharge upon arrival into the San Diego area.
Given the significant increase in elevation driving through the canyon(s) as you start getting close to San Diego, and the significant amount of energy I expect that segment of the trip to consume, I personally would gladly give up one of the stations on the AZ side - like the one slotted for between W. Phoenix and Gila Bend - to have the opportunity to get a supercharge upon arrival into the San Diego area.
Las Vegas to Albuquerque........ no superchargers
nwdiver, Thanks for the tips. Most helpful. All my range anxiety with fast driving resolved! (and I probably don't even need a range charge before we leave home!)
Discovered Sunrise RV in Kingman after being told by Ft Beale RV that they refuse to charge any EV's, including Tesla MS and wouldn't even give me a reason. Snootiest RV park I have ever experienced!
My planned route:
LV to Sunrise RV, Kingman, 105 miles (will do 2-3 hrs, 50 amp)
Kingman to Black Bart's RV, Flagstaff, 135 miles and 3600 ft altitude (will do overnight 50 amp charge, and stay at Little America which is walking distance from Black Bart's)
Flagstaff to USA RV, Gallup, NM 170 miles ( will do 3-4 hours 50 amp long rest (hope Gallup is interesting)
Gallup to Albuquerque, 140 miles
Looking forward to the adventure!
nwdiver, Thanks for the tips. Most helpful. All my range anxiety with fast driving resolved! (and I probably don't even need a range charge before we leave home!)
Discovered Sunrise RV in Kingman after being told by Ft Beale RV that they refuse to charge any EV's, including Tesla MS and wouldn't even give me a reason. Snootiest RV park I have ever experienced!
My planned route:
LV to Sunrise RV, Kingman, 105 miles (will do 2-3 hrs, 50 amp)
Kingman to Black Bart's RV, Flagstaff, 135 miles and 3600 ft altitude (will do overnight 50 amp charge, and stay at Little America which is walking distance from Black Bart's)
Flagstaff to USA RV, Gallup, NM 170 miles ( will do 3-4 hours 50 amp long rest (hope Gallup is interesting)
Gallup to Albuquerque, 140 miles
Looking forward to the adventure!
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
On your way out or back, consider Pagosa Springs. Incredible Pagosa has a 70 Amp J1772, free for guests, $5/hour to others. The Hot Springs are within walking distance as well as several restaurants.
If you need a little extra through Durango, the transit center has 32 Amp J1772's for free, a few blocks from many nice diversions on Main Street. Look at Plugshare.com
Full disclosure: I am the force behind 4 Corners EV Charging
ZBB
Emperor
I think everyone agrees that the Supercharger density along I-8 on Tesla's map makes no sense... Only sites in El Centro and Yuma have been confirmed. Gila Bend (if no SC in Buckeye) or Casa Grande (if an SC in Buckeye) also make sense -- but the other dots don't.
But I'm with ya in that another SC someplace in inland San Diego County makes sense...
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
Please... Its only 113 miles from El Centro to San Diego, San Diego, CA to El Centro, CA - Google Maps. The high point is only a little over 4,000 feet; that is only 25 to 30 rated miles potential energy, and you get most of that back on the downhill, especially on the more gentle west side. This section should be easy even in a 60. I would worry more about the east-bound direction because you will probably be doing more regen on the steep east face, but that is only a few miles difference, and the winds are more likely at your back that direction. :wink:
Enjoy Supercharging! :biggrin:
Last edited:
ZBB
Emperor
However, San Juan Capistrano is 177 miles from El Centro -- 50 miles greater than Tesla's target distance between SCs...
Well, perhaps I'm wrong and you've driven that leg in an ICE powered vehicle many times, but I would be surprised that anyone who has would be that dismissive.
According to the EVTripPlanner, that "only" 113 mile segment would use over 43kWh, but that's at 72 degrees with no wind. In reality - at least in daytime during the summer (when we Phoenicians flock to San Diego) - one is facing an average temperature of 100+ degrees and headwinds from the west. (The average high temp for July and August in El Centro is 106-107 (2013 highest temp. was 118/119, depending on the source) and it obviously goes down from there generally as one ascends.)
Unless one is driving their MS on the uphill sections slowly with flashing hazard lights in the right lane like all the semis, I would have to think it's going to take well over 50kWh to complete that segment. (At only 92 degrees and only a 5mph headwind, EVTripPlanner calculates that segment will use over 52kWh.) I personally would be sweating the whole way - literally because I'd have the A/C off to conserve energy and figuratively - if I was driving that segment in a 60.
Not having an SC station someplace in or around San Diego just makes no sense to me.
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
You are correct. I had always considered San Diego a destination. (Probably because I used to live there) If your route is the Orange County coast to Arizona, then a Supercharger could be useful somewhere near San Diego, especially in a 60.
Happy trails.
- - - Updated - - -
My appoligies for being dismissive. :redface:
Its always better to have more Superchargers; I can't argue with that, but Tesla does have to make priorities.
I have driven that route many times when I used to live in San Diego, and even rode a similar route several times on my bicycle (I used to ride up to Julien a lot, and several times pushed on over into the desert.) Temps in the 100's are an issue, but pre-chilling on shore power will help. Most estimates that I have seen put a big penalty on going up and down. If the down slopes are moderate and you don't go into regen, then there is no loss. When you do go into regen, it is only on the steepest of slopes that its a factor; Even then, you get 70-85% of the energy back.
My experience doing a lot of mountain driving in the Roadster and the MS in the Rockies is that ups and downs do not affect my range much at all, as long as the net change is near zero. If the destination is above the origin, then that must be factored in. I have seen penalties as high as 10 rated miles per 1,000 feet, but my experience is more like 6-7 rated miles per 1,000 feet.
May the wind be at your back! :wink:
You're liable to obtain a very stiff ticket from the Thermodynamics Police if you keep violating the 2nd Law like that, Cotton.....
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
You're liable to obtain a very stiff ticket from the Thermodynamics Police if you keep violating the 2nd Law like that, Cotton.....
Not at all. Let's say that the descent is moderate such that there is always some or zero power used from the battery, i.e. no regen. Then although I use more power from the battery to go uphill and store potential energy in my altitude, when I come down, I use that potential energy rather than stored battery energy.
Of course there are losses much greater than thermodynamic theory in the MS doing a cycle of take energy out of the battery and then put it back. That loss is something on the order of 15-30% or a net energy recovery efficiency of 70-85% in the MS. However if all I am doing is taking energy out early, storing it in a "lossless" medium (potential altitude energy), then using that stored potential energy, its as good as going over flat ground and taking the energy out evenly.
Even in my best case of no regen, there are some small, second-order losses. The biggest of those are the I^2*R losses in the battery, wiring, and power electronics. Assuming the system was designed for maximum power, even climbing steep hills at half power should not be much I^2*R loss.
In reality, there are sections of highways that create some regen on the down hill side. My biggest one is the west side of Wolf Creek Pass, coming into Pagosa. I often put 10 miles or about 3 kW-hr back into the battery on that descent. But even with that let's look at the real, net loss with worst case numbers. Let's say the regen efficiency is only 70%, that means to get 10 miles, I had to have put in the energy of 14 miles (70%*14=10), so I lost 4 miles. However, that downhill is 4,000 feet; at 6 mi/1,000 ft, that is 24 miles of potential energy, so my total loss was 4/24 or 17%, not too bad, and remember that is still only 4 total, rated miles lost. Using best case numbers 85% and 7mi/1,000 ft, the loss is 2 miles and 2/28 or 7%.
The grade on the east side of the Coastal range going into the desert on I-8 is something like the west side of Wolf Creek, but we are only talking about 2-4 miles lost even in those extreme conditions.
I think the Thermodynamic Police should give me a gold star! :biggrin:
In the northwest and now, northern California, the firm doing the installations was the same firm. Often could determine from them what their next stop was going to be. Once construction begins in Yuma and Quartzsite, hopefully TMC members passing through can perform interviews of the crews and report back. I won't be going through until December 1st, but will stop if anything is going at that point. Believe roblab is coming through this week, so we should hear something.
wraithnot
Model 3 VIN #2942 Model S VIN #5785
My wife and I are planning to drive our 85 kWh Model S from the bay area to Las Cruces, NM in late December so I'm paying extremely close attention to this thread. I'll also report what I see when I make the trip.
I'm counting on the Quartzsite supercharger to be operational by then, but Indio and Goodyear would also be quite helpful. If only Quartzsite is operational then, I'm tentatively planning to do the standard Harris, Tejon, Hawthorne route, charging over night at a hotel in the Palm Springs/Indio area, range charging at Quartzsite, topping up in Phoenix or Casa Grande, range charging overnight in either Tucson or one of the RV parks in Wilcox, and then heading to Las Cruces (topping up in Wilcox if we spent the night in Tucson). Anyway, please keep posting info about the status of these superchargers so I can plan accordingly. Any tips or thoughts on traveling from LA to Las Cruces would also be appreciated.
I'm counting on the Quartzsite supercharger to be operational by then, but Indio and Goodyear would also be quite helpful. If only Quartzsite is operational then, I'm tentatively planning to do the standard Harris, Tejon, Hawthorne route, charging over night at a hotel in the Palm Springs/Indio area, range charging at Quartzsite, topping up in Phoenix or Casa Grande, range charging overnight in either Tucson or one of the RV parks in Wilcox, and then heading to Las Cruces (topping up in Wilcox if we spent the night in Tucson). Anyway, please keep posting info about the status of these superchargers so I can plan accordingly. Any tips or thoughts on traveling from LA to Las Cruces would also be appreciated.
NuclearPowered
Member
I will be driving through quartzsite on Friday evening so if there is no pics by then I will stop and scout
I agree 100%, and so my point is that I don't quite understand the density of superchargers in SW Arizona being a priority relative to the need for a supercharger outside of San Diego for those coming in from the east.
That segment going west from El Centro can be treacherous for any vehicle in the summer, and I'm betting the heat prior to and through the ascent is really going to put the beat down on energy consumption. (Remember all the cars back in the day - and some even today - having to pull over because of overheating?) While only a small fraction of energy will be consumed from around Alpine, CA (where you start heading downhill) into San Diego, given that most drivers will not have any interest in hanging out in 115 degree temps in El Centro to get closer to a full range charge [or query, might they have to?], under normal driving standards, one will not be getting into San Diego with a lot of surplus. That being the case, it would be nice to get another quick charge before driving in and around San Diego for vacation (or whatever) rather than what will most likely be the case, and that is having to be more focused on getting to [what will be a much slower] charge location before doing anything else in town.
[/QUOTE] May the wind be at your back! :wink:[/QUOTE]
And to you as well! Unfortunately, that is rarely if ever the case driving from Phoenix to San Diego. Quite the opposite if anything. :smile:
thranx
Member
ZBB
Emperor
I haven't driven the I-8 route in several years*, but if I remember correctly, the uphill portion going westbound has water tanks on the roadside every couple miles... I also remember being a passenger in my mom's '79 Volvo 240 Diesel on that stretch one summer -- with the A/C off and my mom watching the temp gauge very carefully since it was close to overheating...
* I live fairly close to you Dukecat -- I'm in Scottsdale, but just barely south of Carefree. We've stayed in Carlsbad on our last couple trips to San Diego -- turns out that the drive is faster by going through Wickenburg and Palm Springs, then turning south at Beaumont and going through Temecula...
I remember us needing the same vigilance in our late 70's / early 80's Volvos and seeing those oft-used water tanks. What was up with our folks and Volvos back then!?!
Thanks for the tip regarding driving to San Diego from Carefree / N. Scottsdale. Will definitely have to try that route next time.
I will be traveling from Napa to Tucson around Dec 29. I think my plan (assuming only Quartzsite and Yuma are added by then) will be to spend night in Palm desert, then on to Yuma for a range charge. It is 220 miles from Yuma to our place on the north side of Tucson, so believe I can nurse it and make it. There is a charging station at Picacho Peak about 20 miles from my house that I can use in case of emergency. By the time we return in April, the State should be lousy with SC's so not worried about then.
I did the trip last year and stayed in Kingman at a KOA, then charged up at the Scottsdale Tesla store. Fun trip.
I did the trip last year and stayed in Kingman at a KOA, then charged up at the Scottsdale Tesla store. Fun trip.
Similar threads
- Poll
