TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Article: It Turns Out “Green” Cars Aren’t So “Green” After All

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by DavidB, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. DavidB

    DavidB Aug 2013 S85

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    279
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
  2. samcarney

    samcarney Sam C

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    258
    Location:
    Great Lakes, Southern California
    Once again the "long Tailpipe argument" YAWN!
    Perhaps the author should buy an electric car and see for himself, which is cheaper and BTW much more enjoyable to drive.
    End of sermon.
     
  3. caddieo

    caddieo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Messages:
    877
    Location:
    Palm Coast, FL
    Ho Hum - Yawn. When will they stop criticizing the CO2 footprint of electricity production without a corresponding critique of gasoline and oil production -as if gas appears at the pump out of nowhere? I guess they are following the dictum that if you repeat a big lie often enough, people will believe it.
     
  4. derekt75

    derekt75 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    592
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    ugh; that article is awful.
    "polar ice is thicker than ever"? on what planet? Here on Earth, while East Antarctica has added a little to its cap, it doesn't come close to offsetting the losses of ice from West Antarctica and from Greenland. and if they're talking about the Arctic Sea, well, we might be setting a record for the least amount of ice there in March.

    and "overly optimistic assumption that gas and electric versions are equally efficient"? overly optimistic for whom? for the gasoline car, yes, that's crazy optimism. but the article implies the opposite. and at least get your units straight: it's a kWh or kW-h, not a Kw/h. or maybe the author is inventing new units because they can't make a cogent argument with actual units.

    The arguments in the article are so bad it's remarkable.
     
  5. deonb

    deonb Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,019
    Location:
    Redmond, WA
    "so if the polar ice caps are melting (which they aren’t, by the way – the ice is thicker than ever), then it is the fault of the electric cars generating greater heat than gasoline engines."


    :scared:
     
  6. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    3,209
    Location:
    Rome (Italy)
    IMO the author of the article should study a little bit of thermodynamics. In fact he claims that ICE cars are more efficient than electric cars. :scared:

    - - - Updated - - -

    Same comment about thermodynamics :scared:
     
  7. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,557
    That article uses the handiwork of a Han Baumann who made some napkin mathematics calculations and gets it all wrong:

    The Myth of the Electric Car


    One of the biggest problems with anyone doing this kind of calculation for the first time is that they don't know everything goes into the calculations in order to get a proper comparison. Hence the moment one of these articles starts making claims by discussing any number of efficiencies, if the article isn't a published journal article, chances are it gets things wrong. If they started with the Argonne National Labs GREET model and properly discloses adjustments to the assumptions in order to get proper Well to Wheel (WtW) calculations, the we might want to pay some attention. Otherwise, they're going to be wrong. Mr. Nathan Weiss's work, for example, highlights the folly of doing it on your own.

    In any case, Mr. Baumann here is looking to do a hit job. He spends a bunch of words discussing efficiencies on the electric motor side, but then on the gasoline engine side, his entire comment is:

    What Wikipedia actually says is this:

    So he's wrong right away and anyone that deals with gasoline engine efficiencies knows this right away. Even without correcting anything else, his calculations of the electric motor side is 25.4% and that already beats the 18-20% efficiency of a gasoline engine given by the University of Washington.

    Of course, he assumes that gasoline magically appears in the tank of the ICE vehicle while making all sorts of pains to sort out the production and the transport of electricity to an electric vehicle.

    He also neglects that coal and oil production plants aren't the only way, and in many places, not even a significant way of generating electricity.

    I could go on and on, but it's clear that this is work by Mr. Baumann is a sophomoric hit job. Then you add to it the commentary by various right wing nut jobs that don't bother to examine if the work is correct or not and it just gets worse.
     

Share This Page