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Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by DaveT, Nov 4, 2013.
"New Math, 1x3=5"
Building cars vs. building margin.
Dual rate M3 springs, $335 per set.
Softer ride (proven on this video) plus (claimed) better handling
Published on Feb 14, 2018The Model 3 has got a bit of a bad reputation for having a rough ride. I’ve had mixed feelings about it personally. In this video, I show the before and after from lowering my Model 3 by 1.5” (moderate) and testing the vibrations.
Before we get too deep into the weeds here, this is a sponsored post. Unplugged Performance in LA hooked up these springs for me and are giving away a set to one lucky winner of their raffle. Enter to win below: ## Enter to win a free set of lowering springs for your Model 3 here!
Model 3 Spring Giveaway - Unplugged Performance After getting my 20” turbine wheels from EV Wheel Direct something just wasn’t right about the look of Tez, my Model 3. So I called up my friends at Unplugged Performance and they let me know about a new set of suspension which lowers the car 1.5” (moderate) and also should improve the ride comfort. ## View My Results - https://teslanomics.co/improving-mode... Here are the full details on the springs themselves which retail for $335 w/o installation Full details here - https://unpluggedperformance.com/prod... //
Concept This ambitious engineering project began with a review of factory spring rates and led to a goal of the following: 1. Target an increase in comfort in daily driving situations. Solution by studying factory spring rates and producing a softer but proportionate spring rate front and rear. 2. Target an increase in performance when cornering. Solution by utilizing the highest technology partner and producing a secondary more sporty performance spring rate that engages when cornering g forces are loaded. 3. Target an increase in range. Achieved by lowering the car as height is proven to correlate to aerodynamic efficiency. 4. Every day improved performance at significant value. Solution by producing in bulk volume in a direct manufacturer partnership produced to proprietary Unplugged Performance developed specifications. // SPECIFICATIONS: * Produced in an engineering partnership with Formula 1 and 50+ consecutive Indy car winning spring supplier HYPERCO * Proven Dual Rate spring technology allows for best of both worlds. The car rides at noticeably softer spring rates around town. When sporty handling is desired, natural cornering g forces activate the spring’s 30% sportier secondary spring rate which reduces body roll and gives noticeable difference in both feel and handling at the limit * Physics proven benefits of range efficiency by lowering center of gravity and reducing underbody air turbulence * Three unique offerings – Mild provides near factory ground clearance and softest ride. Moderate provides a ground clearance equivalence to modern sports cars. Low provides a ground clearance equivalence to modern hypercars. Mild is approximately 0.7″ drop, Moderate is approximately a 1.5” drop, Low is approximately a 2.1” drop * Designed, Engineered and Produced in America.
Sorry for my late response to this post. I just saw it. Great one!
The thing that has always puzzled me was the conventional auto strategy.
They decided to replace the cheap ($3k - $5k?) ICE drivetrain of low end cars with an expensive EV drivetrain ($15k - $20k?) putting the car at a relative $15k disadvantage to the ICE peer.
It seems obvious, in retrospect, the most value gained would be in competition to the vehicles with the most expensive engine/transmission combos. Super cars can have ICE drivetrains probably near $100k, so they should have been dead in the water for years!
I can kind of understand why the Italians and Germans would have been scared of cannibalization in the higher-end luxury/sport market, but that doesn't explain why Cadillac, Lincoln, Infiniti or Hyundai didn't use this strategy to grab high-end market share.
I stopped by a Mercedes, Acura, Toyota and Honda dealership this weekend.
Their cars haven't changed much in the past 5-10 years. Boggles my mind why maps/navigation isn't standard on all cars. It's such a requirement in my opinion. Can someone enlighten me? Is it just cost savings? Or is there not demand?
I'm sorry, did you say "Toyota"? That brand infects all the others on the lot. They obviously didn't have the decent models with decent options of the other brands. Even Honda is pretty low grade. Every time I took my Mercedes (with great navigation) in for service, my loaner had even better navigation, and all my loaners were lesser models than what I owned, but in the same class.
Maybe go to a dealership with decent cars, next time.
I can’t speak for US, but generally in Norway due to high taxes on cars the entry price is going to be rather high. Hence our entry model would probably be more like the US mid to high level. That again means almost any new car in Norway now has navigation. And even more so for EVs that due to expensive batteries only come in highest trim level.
So to answer your question, maybe Honda want a very low entry price to get people in the door?
No one would use the maps and nav on those cars when your cellphone is better. It's a waste of $3k or more with some other crappy "tech" features.
Just to clarify, I went to separate dealerships - one Mercedes, one Acura, one Toyota, one Honda.
A small quibble to an otherwise good comparison.
If you are going to put all of the Ford products under one average then you must put all of Tesla products under one average. The way I read your post is...
a Ford car is worth A.
Model 3&Y is worth B.
An S&X is worth C.
While true it is an exaggerated comparison when separating out Telsa's higher profit vehicles and not separating out Fords higher profit vehicles. I would find fault in an article written like that. It would be better if comparing all of Fords profits combined to all of Tesla's profits combined.
Regarding Nav. Most of the time I’ve seen them as add ons. Out of curiousity I looked at website costs/availability for Nav systems:
BMW 3 series (base 320). Base price 35k, with Nav [needs upgraded package] = 40k
MB C class. Base 40k. Add in Garmin nav + $625
Honda Accord. Base 23-25k. No option online to add nav (as far as I can see)
Toyota Camry. Base 25k. Nav appears to be included.
These are custom builds on website, not necessarily what’s in stores now.
Also, after you get the Nav add ons, historically to get new maps etc, you usually had to take them to the dealer for upgrades... at additional cost. I recall the early days when you would have to buy a DVD/CD.
Last Nav system I got gave me an option to upgrade for $200-300 at the dealership. The funny thing is we moved to a new area in town which wasn’t mapped... and the car would constantly be shown driving in a big blank space. My kids would always say we are driving in the middle of nowhere.
I think they don't want to be bothered to come up with something that will be obsolete almost immediately without OTA updates. Yet another way the legacy fossils are screwed.
That was my thought as well. Almost everyone already has nav on their phones with constant updates.
Oh! That totally eradicates the logic in my message. (It was based on bad input.) I'm surprised. Now, I'll try to pop into some of the MB dealers in my areas to see if it's consistent across areas. But overall, your message is informative: that means competition is slow right now.
Slightly incoherent set of thoughts...
Navigation started as a luxury item. Manufacturers are in the business of advertising attractive base price and selling you loaded model. Base model needs to be attractive, but not attractive enough. This allows for market segmentation - If you have more money, they'll take more from you.
Now, pool of toys and options needs to be of a certain depth for a proper market segmentation. That pool is running dry right now, as advances in electronics make it possible for some manufacturers to include many features and force the hand of others to build better equipped base models. Autonomy will help increase 'toys' pool size. Did you see how BMW was packaging and selling autonomy features couple years ago? There was separate emergency braking option, separate adaptive cruise control, separate notification off blind spot etc... They had 4-5 components of the autopilot as 2-3K options, and that is before auto-steer.
Going back to relationship with nav. Autonomy, according to regular manufacturers needs to start with large luxury cars (Series 7), and in 10 years travel to entry level luxury (Series 3). So Nav as an option is still something they need as a part of the offering, to extract another $2-3K per car. I mean, should they offere it as a standard, they wouldn't be able to increase the price of base car, so they would be passing on the profits, and they don't have enough other 'toys' to offer.
Now, Tesla is playing game differently as Tesla is in the business of building brand, following, customer satisfaction, company and technology. Others are still in the business of maximizing $$$ from number of sales, and making profits. Very different goals. There will be first movers here though, once car makers stop being in the business of making profit and get into the business of survival, and I anticipate game will become very different quite quickly.
Dave, from your latest article on Geely:
That is incorrect. Geely's market cap of $228B is in Hong Kong dollars. Their market cap is only about $29B in USD.
Thanks for catching that. Change made.
Nav is optional bc it’s not proprietary so the software is an incremental cost manufacturers pass along to customers
With TSLA, it’s proprietary not to mention TSLA has a diff business model that utilizes higher margins and less options....
So, though I feel like your question was initially rhetorical, yes, it makes sense why nav is not standard on cars, INCLUDING high end manufacturers.... to address the other guys snarky comment.
When I set out to replace my 1992 Buick, I looked at most of the ICE cars with enough leg room for my legs (larger sedans in the $30-$0K range mostly). I figured in 23 years there had to be improvements to cars. There were obvious advances in the infotainment systems of course. And safety systems were better. But beyond that, I was shocked to find that the ICE available in 2015 were not really any better than my ancient Buick. There were more bells and whistles, but when it came to gas mileage, cargo space, acceleration, new cars were no better and often worse.
Then I found Tesla and the Model S blew away all my criteria. It is, fundamentally, a better car design than anything else available. The nav system on my Tesla got my SO thinking about getting an aftermarket one for her Subaru, but she couldn't find anything as good. She, like most people, use her phone when she needs navigation.
The mainstream auto makers have been essentially putting lipstick on pigs for at least 20-30 years.