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Articles re Tesla—Fact or Fiction?

ninpb

Member
Jun 19, 2018
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90720

pz1975

Supporting Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,468
8,373
Langley, BC, Canada
Electric cars: If Sir James Dyson can't do it, what’s ‘paper billionaire’ Elon Musk hoping for?

What the author completely ignores:
a. Dyson vacuums cost more than competitors because it's a better product. Dyson can't make a better EV so they can't charge premium prices like Tesla can.
b. Dyson had success in making household vacuums but finds making ev's challenging. Musk also has some prior/current work experience to draw on, like launching rockets... at the same time.
Why even post such a useless, one-sided, factless opinion piece? Not worth anyone's time to even click on IMO.
 

wdolson

Supporting Member
Jul 24, 2015
7,652
10,295
Clark Co, WA
Electric cars: If Sir James Dyson can't do it, what’s ‘paper billionaire’ Elon Musk hoping for?

What the author completely ignores:
a. Dyson vacuums cost more than competitors because it's a better product. Dyson can't make a better EV so they can't charge premium prices like Tesla can.
b. Dyson had success in making household vacuums but finds making ev's challenging. Musk also has some prior/current work experience to draw on, like launching rockets... at the same time.

Is Tesla still charging a premium over other EVs? The Model 3 and Y cost a bit more than comparable ICE, but they are much cheaper than comparable EVs.

Starting a car company in the modern world is very tough. Tesla threaded the needle and beat the odds. Other companies are finding it very tough to get off the ground. Apple and Dyson had deep pockets, but both failed to get very far. I think LG is working on an EV, but they secretly learned the ropes by teaming with GM on the Bolt. They also have more experience bending metal than Dyson or Apple did.

The only car start ups to make it since WW II started with a home growth market, then expanded to developing countries first. That's how Hyudai made it, and it's how the Chinese start ups that may make it are doing it. In the developed world, there is no growing demand for cars. Most new car sales are replacing older cars and there is a robust used market. The average age of cars on US roads is 12 years.

A new car company is trying to break into a crowded market with no growth. There is low tolerance among consumers for mistakes new companies are going to make. In a growth market, consumers are more tolerant of bugs because demand is outstripping supply and consumers can't afford to be too picky. That gives a new comer a chance to make mistakes and survive.
 

TSLA Pilot

Active Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,796
2,491
United States
Gotta agree: oil magnate and dictator Putin-backed propaganda outlet Russia Today (RT) is the last place I would ever seek out for anything ever, including to get worthwhile insights on electric cars. :)

Especially given that a huge percentage of Russia GDP/income is derived from fossil fuels, with little or no plan to get away from them.
 

hcsharp

Active Member
Jun 7, 2011
3,400
1,412
Vermont
Does the New York Times even bother fact-checking their articles any more? I'm surprised to see such a biased and misleading article from the Times. I'm not even going to link it here because I don't want to give it any more clicks, but it's on the front page of the online paper and the Business section. It's full of outright falsehoods and misinformation. They quote multiple people who were injured or family members of people in fatal accidents and their lawyers but give not a word of any actual data or interviews with staff at the NHTSA. The whole article seems like something you would read in the National Enquirer or some sensational rag looking for cheap clicks.

Honestly Tesla needs to take more responsibility for their communications and hire some people to respond to things like this.
 

wdolson

Supporting Member
Jul 24, 2015
7,652
10,295
Clark Co, WA
It looks like the sort of accident that would have happens under any circumstances. The pickup changed lanes without looking and a car coming at high speed had no time to react. A contributing factor in the death was that the kid was not wearing a seatbelt.

When I was driving carpool in the Seattle area I was always paranoid that someone was going to zip into the carpool lane, which was going much faster, without looking and cause an accident.
 

hcsharp

Active Member
Jun 7, 2011
3,400
1,412
Vermont
I just this article and other than it is devoid of facts, it was well written.
Sorry but this is anything but "well written." It's not just "devoid of facts," it contains multiple outright false statements (no fact checking), multiple misleading comments, extremely biased reporting. There's one comment from a Tesla employee not even related to or responding to the accident but dozens of comments from grieving family members and their lawyers. Right up to the last sentence they heavily dramatize the emotional impact to the family but not a single word or any discussion about how many lives have been saved by Autopilot or statistics from the NHTSA showing that cars on Autopilot are over 9 times less likely to have a serious accident than cars being driven manually. Instead the whole article leads you to believe that Tesla is causing unnecessary tragic, heart-wrenching deaths to innocent children and families by irresponsibly promoting an extremely dangerous system that no other automaker would even consider.

The Times has sunk pretty low to print something this bad. But I still think Tesla is partly to blame for having no PR dept to respond to this kind of trash reporting.
 
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jimm01

Member
Apr 29, 2021
314
321
Devonshire NJ
Musk: "Nothing has more degrees of freedom than reality."

Sorry in advance for posing a semantic argument but self-driving and autonomous driving are two different things, the former being more independent of the actions of other drivers, as well as the operator, (i.e. reality). Autonomous driving would require the prediction of driver intent and action, or the precise execution of a prescribe set of rules and procedures by all vehicles. Barring a mechanical failure until such time it is still the drivers fault. However, given the number of morons out there who equate self-driving to an autopilot Tesla's burden is in not being explicit in clarifying driver-assistance as a distinction with a difference.

 

Electroman

Supporting Member
Aug 18, 2012
6,261
6,414
TX
The Times has sunk pretty low to print something this bad.
It takes a subject that you know very well to realize how rotten the media is. Keep that in mind when you read opinionated stories on India, China and Russia. They selectively quote only those that suit their agenda, and then use dramatic and biased phrases and words to embellish their stories.
 
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Electroman

Supporting Member
Aug 18, 2012
6,261
6,414
TX
But I still think Tesla is partly to blame for having no PR dept to respond to this kind of trash reporting.

Lets play out a scenario here: Lets us say there is a PR. Tesla PR would have responded with what? A generic statement containing stats of AP deaths/accidents per mile and compare it to gas cars?

Media would put that as a foot note with a follow up remark on how these stats from Tesla have not been validated and also put in a rebuttal-quote from many of the TSLAQ celebrities' like Niedermyer, Montana Skeptic, Tesla Charts etc.. thereby reducing Tesla's protestations to nothing. This has happened many times in the past.

On the other hand, Tesla can and should write a detailed blog explaining how much AP has saved, and how people have walked away without a scratch in many accidents, and how fires are far less deadly. And can also point out how media like LAT, NYT, WSJ et al are biased and write hit pieces and can point to several examples.

If NYT hit pieces can reach millions, Tesla's rebuttals with providing adequate context can reach an equal or far greater audience with a single Musk tweet.
 

adiggs

Active Member
Sep 25, 2012
4,566
12,947
Portland, OR
It takes a subject that you know very well to realize how rotten the media is. Keep that in mind when you read opinionated stories on India, China and Russia. They selectively quote only those that suit their agenda, and then use dramatic and biased phrases and words to embellish their stories.
This dynamic has made me question everything I see in the media. In other topics that I don't have such deep knowledge of I often can't identify how these can be misleading (who benefits, why), but I can usually identify the POV getting short shrift and wonder about how I'd state that alternative POV in positive terms. Even if I don't personally agree with that other POV, I at least want to understand it in that POV terms, and most articles don't help me with that.
 
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