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Articles re Tesla—Fact or Fiction?

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A new low has been reached seekingalpha.com/article/4028536-argument-trump-use-ban-electric-cars-outright
Tenneco’s chief technologist claims that new automobile emissions control technologies are reaching a dramatically efficient stage for regular gasoline/diesel cars.

So efficient, in fact - he claims - that what comes out the tailpipe of the new car/truck is cleaner than what enters it through the air filter.

In case you didn’t quite catch that, it would mean that a new vehicle is so clean that you’re actually cleaning the air when you run the engine.

Amazingly, that would mean that these new gasoline/diesel cars are even cleaner than a zero-emissions battery-electric car. Less than zero is less than zero.

Assuming this Tenneco claim is verified, the Trump administration could use this as an argument to tax electric cars or outright ban them.
Tenneco supplies the auto industry with various things, but perhaps most prominently emissions control equipment.
 
Ever notice how the key sentences in the stupidest FUD articles are not even sentences? They are not grammatical, and don't even have any logical meaning.

From Forbes Will Tesla Burn Through Its Remaining Cash?

Look at this non-sentence without a verb:

The key assumption underlying that conclusion is that if charges $35,000 for its Model 3, Tesla will lose so much money that its cash will go up in flames.

Forbes can't write an article with any truth against Tesla right now, so they simply print jibberish without real sentences.
 
I did a google search on M3 to see if there was any news and all I saw were a bunch of articles like the seekingalpha one you mentioned. Tons of gloom and doom about Tesla. The M3 will bankrupt the company, the competition will be cheaper, no more CAFE payments, etc etc. What I wonder is, why, or why, do these AMERICAN investment companies root for an AMERICAN company that manufactures in AMERICA to fail?? I find many reasons to root for Tesla. If someone doesn't want to buy into the climate change topic, ok. There are still a ton of other reasons to support Tesla!! We know them here, so I don't need to wear out my fingers typing them out. But man, it really gets on my nerves.
 
There are people who have shorted Tesla who require Tesla to fail to make or at least not lose money
There are also people invested in industries threatened by Tesla's success, so they too need Tesla to fail.
Finally you have people who for whatever reason are stuck in "the way things were" and are desperate to hold on to the past.

All of these people care nothing about the truth and are only concerned with promoting their agenda. They've all been attacking Tesla, (and EV's in general), in varying degrees since the beginning.
 
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I searched all over anything related to Tenneco and couldn't come up with even the vaguest reference of what that article was mentioning.

I fear we are now well into the Era Of Misinformation. WWII disinformation campaigns have nothing on what the world is now awash.

"All The News That's Fit To Stick On The Wall"
 
intriguing article on SA dealing with suit in Delaware vs Tesla.
Tesla Motors battles shareholder in Delaware court - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha
SHAHID HAQUE vs tesla
"Based on this promise, Tesla has developed an almost cult-like following among investors and car buyers alike"

Paulo Santos is mentioned 2x as evidence of "badness" tesla is doing
(they want to see ALL the books for legal reasons)
there is in the complaints they ???make too many or make too few??? vehicles
they don't reveal numbers
they mention Ashlee Vance
(it is confusing 34 pages)

(I WAS hoping they would mention Montana Skeptic so he would be forced in court to say his real name)

http://hgtlaw.com/wp-content/upload...COURT-STAMPED-Books-and-Records-Complaint.pdf
 
I searched all over anything related to Tenneco and couldn't come up with even the vaguest reference of what that article was mentioning.

I fear we are now well into the Era Of Misinformation. WWII disinformation campaigns have nothing on what the world is now awash.

"All The News That's Fit To Stick On The Wall"

Fake news has been around for a while, but it's becoming a more and more serious problem. It ranges from plausible but false (or exaggerated) to lunacy only people with serious confirmation bias can believe. The made up FUD about Tesla is just one example, US politics is rife with it.

I have been somewhat concerned about it over the last decade, but I have become much more concerned over the last year. It seems to have kicked up a notch or two.
 
I have been somewhat concerned about it over the last decade, but I have become much more concerned over the last year. It seems to have kicked up a notch or two.
Propagation is a lot easier now than it was a decade ago, and it's much more organically targeted at individuals already open to the message within. When your social media contacts share things with you, it's likely you're aligned with that message to some degree.

I've been reading about a push in machine learning academia to build models that can flesh out fake news vs. real news. The idea would be that social media sites could adopt those models and clean things up a bit.

The problem is that those who want to believe conspiracy theories will just assume it's a form of censorship, and will continue to distrust the media. The media who, incidentally, is democracy's true protection against the government.
 
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Propagation is a lot easier now than it was a decade ago, and it's much more organically targeted at individuals already open to the message within. When your social media contacts share things with you, it's likely you're aligned with that message to some degree.

I've been reading about a push in machine learning academia to build models that can flesh out fake news vs. real news. The idea would be that social media sites could adopt those models and clean things up a bit.

The problem is that those who want to believe conspiracy theories will just assume it's a form of censorship, and will continue to distrust the media. The media who, incidentally, is democracy's true protection against the government.

In Psychology it's called "confirmation bias". Many people are predisposed to believe things that fit ideas they already have.

A percentage of the population now believes that a large chunk of the media is lying and only a small segment tells the truth. That small segment has been telling anyone willing to listen for almost 30 years that they are the only ones telling the truth, which incidentally is the first thing a cult leader does too. Not that a segment of the media is a cult, but I think they have borrowed some techniques from cults.

Going back in history, there is always a segment of the population who believes things counter to what the majority of people believe. It seems to be getting worse though.

I don't really have a problem with people coming to a different conclusion if they are basing their conclusions on the same facts the bulk of the population are also getting. I think a healthy society has a range of opinions and we can come to reasonable compromises by sharing opinions and coming to solutions that maybe nobody likes, but most people can live with. That's the way most successful democracies have worked through history.

The problem is a segment of the population who is a minority, but a sizable one, now has decided they can make up their own facts and believe those. When people believe things are facts that are contradictory to what the rest of the population accepts as facts, society has a major problem. We insist schizophrenics be medicated or institutionalized because their brain chemistry leads them to believe their brain noise is factual and they live in a different reality than the rest of the world. Linked with a tendency towards violence, these people are not safe to be in the general population.

The minority who don't accept the same facts as the rest of the population are probably not mentally ill. There may be a few who are, but most have just been isolated in a different media universe and they literally live in a different reality. While they aren't mentally ill, the effect on society has some similarities.

This has happened between societies throughout history. The people who lived in communism really got a different perspective on the world than those who lived in the west. The people of North Korea today live in a different reality than the rest of the world. However the balkanization of the media and the fringe elements making up facts and reporting them as news and the ability for people to isolate themselves in those bubbles is a new phenomenon that was an unexpected side effect of the internet and other changes to the media world.

Of course we see it with Tesla too. This thread is full of people denouncing FUD articles about Tesla. Those articles are written primarily to feed those who already believe Tesla only exists because of massive government subsidies and it would fold like a cheap suit if those subsidies went away. As a bonus these FUD articles rope in a few people who were on the fence too.

The disinformation in the EV world is just a small sample of what's happening in many areas today.

Some kind of real time fact checking these stories would be good for keeping the fence sitters from getting roped in, which is a good thing, but it will likely just make the converted more paranoid and more angry.
 
In Psychology it's called "confirmation bias". Many people are predisposed to believe things that fit ideas they already have.

A percentage of the population now believes that a large chunk of the media is lying and only a small segment tells the truth. That small segment has been telling anyone willing to listen for almost 30 years that they are the only ones telling the truth, which incidentally is the first thing a cult leader does too. Not that a segment of the media is a cult, but I think they have borrowed some techniques from cults.

Going back in history, there is always a segment of the population who believes things counter to what the majority of people believe. It seems to be getting worse though.

I don't really have a problem with people coming to a different conclusion if they are basing their conclusions on the same facts the bulk of the population are also getting. I think a healthy society has a range of opinions and we can come to reasonable compromises by sharing opinions and coming to solutions that maybe nobody likes, but most people can live with. That's the way most successful democracies have worked through history.

The problem is a segment of the population who is a minority, but a sizable one, now has decided they can make up their own facts and believe those. When people believe things are facts that are contradictory to what the rest of the population accepts as facts, society has a major problem. We insist schizophrenics be medicated or institutionalized because their brain chemistry leads them to believe their brain noise is factual and they live in a different reality than the rest of the world. Linked with a tendency towards violence, these people are not safe to be in the general population.

The minority who don't accept the same facts as the rest of the population are probably not mentally ill. There may be a few who are, but most have just been isolated in a different media universe and they literally live in a different reality. While they aren't mentally ill, the effect on society has some similarities.

This has happened between societies throughout history. The people who lived in communism really got a different perspective on the world than those who lived in the west. The people of North Korea today live in a different reality than the rest of the world. However the balkanization of the media and the fringe elements making up facts and reporting them as news and the ability for people to isolate themselves in those bubbles is a new phenomenon that was an unexpected side effect of the internet and other changes to the media world.

Of course we see it with Tesla too. This thread is full of people denouncing FUD articles about Tesla. Those articles are written primarily to feed those who already believe Tesla only exists because of massive government subsidies and it would fold like a cheap suit if those subsidies went away. As a bonus these FUD articles rope in a few people who were on the fence too.

The disinformation in the EV world is just a small sample of what's happening in many areas today.

Some kind of real time fact checking these stories would be good for keeping the fence sitters from getting roped in, which is a good thing, but it will likely just make the converted more paranoid and more angry.

As Stephen Colbert once said, "It used to be, everyone was entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. But that's not the case anymore. Facts matter not at all. Perception is everything. It's certainty."
 
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The article says they are trying to identify employees who have contributed to Obama's energy policy. If they try to fire those employees they might find it's pretty difficult to fire a civil servant, especially for political reasons.

There was the thread here on which candidate would be better for Tesla. Some people thought it would be Trump. I never thought Trump would be good for Tesla or the alternate energy sector in general. It's ironic though that Trump's whole campaign was about "make America great again" and one of the reasons the US has been in decline as a world power is the US's inability to control its own destiny when it comes to energy. The alternative energy sector has been one area where the US has been taking a lead and there are tons of new start ups that are creating jobs and show potential to create a lot more jobs in the future.

Going back to antiquated technologies is not going to make America great again, it's going to put the US behind the curve. Carbon aside, coal is dying because it's economically unfeasible. The US has a glut of natural gas and natural gas power plants are much cheaper to run than coal plants. Wind and solar are getting cheap enough to push out coal too. The Obama administration's regulations on coal power plants were just speeding up the end of an industry that's already dying.
 
I've found that analysts who don't own a Tesla are clueless.

You just can't really know anything about Tesla without owning one.

It is just too paradigm changing. It goes beyond a person's ability to imagine what the product is like.

It is like following Facebook without ever using Facebook and thinking well "I have friends, I read a paper, I know what it is like."

You just can't really know where things are heading if you have no understanding of the product.

Most analysts writing about Tesla have no real understanding where things are heading.