TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Articles re Tesla—Fact or Fiction?

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by Robert.Boston, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. winfield100

    winfield100 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,782
    Location:
    bon vivant traveler, northern hemisphere mostly
    upload_2018-10-26_13-9-10.png
    upload_2018-10-26_13-9-57.png
    upload_2018-10-26_13-10-45.png
     
    • Informative x 4
  2. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    5,374
    Location:
    Clark Co, WA
    Tesla is in test production on a solid state cell? If that's true, not only is the no cobalt thing newsworthy, it also means they cracked the holy grail of battery design. The potential energy density of solid state cells is considerably higher than any li-ion chemistry mix.
     
  3. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    14,212
    Location:
    Central New York
    Cobalt free MNO chemistry is not new, the problem has always been energy density/specific energy and life span. Improvements to both would be needed.
     
  4. winfield100

    winfield100 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,782
    Location:
    bon vivant traveler, northern hemisphere mostly
    No No No, its an illustration about costs and future costs of tesla batteries vs competition

    note NCM 811 and MNO --->> _future_ <-----

    and relative costs of Al, Ni, Mn vs Co
    apologies for being imprecise/vague
     
  5. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    14,212
    Location:
    Central New York
    It would be helpful if you linked your source material and describe it more precisely.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. winfield100

    winfield100 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,782
    Location:
    bon vivant traveler, northern hemisphere mostly
    #1926 winfield100, Oct 27, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
    most folks hate this place
    Tesla, Universe And Everything? - Tesla, Inc. (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha
    (article by Randy Carlson, one of the one or two authors I follow there)
    (it's free to read for 7 days post pub so goes dark soonest)
    (again apologies for my over enthusiasm)
     
  7. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    5,374
    Location:
    Clark Co, WA
    I've been familiar with a manganese oxide chemistry, but always understood it was a liquid electrolyte like every other li-ion chemistry. What all the battery researchers are trying to do is come up with a solid state, rechargeable, lithium or li-ion battery. That would be significantly safer than liquid electrolytes and there is promise of much higher energy densities. Manufacturing a solid state electrolyte would probably also be much easier and thus cheaper.
     
  8. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Messages:
    6,257
    • Informative x 3
  9. Brando

    Brando Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,519
    Location:
    Bainbridge Island, WA
    I don't wish to encourage these click bait headlines, so I for one will not bother. IF it has any truth, I'm sure other articles will appear soon enough. Sadly, the "media", "oil companies", "legacy auto" would all like to shut down Tesla. Most of you readers know why.

    Corporations worked together before and destroyed a fine electric trolly system in the US.
    Of course, trolls work to keep these corporation in the best light possible. Truth often not easy to find/learn.
    General Motors streetcar conspiracy - Wikipedia
     
    • Love x 2
    • Informative x 1
  10. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    5,374
    Location:
    Clark Co, WA
    My parents remembered Los Angeles' street car system. They thought it was quite good.

    As far as the criminal probe into whether Tesla lied about production numbers should be fairly easy to figure out. Of all the Model 3s built so far, a handful are still in Tesla's hands (either in transit or are being used as demos) and a handful went to Canada. The rest were all sold and registered in the United States.

    Tesla has internal records on weekly production that almost certainly square with where the cars ended up. They could even be tracked by VIN if investigators wanted to get down to that level of scrutiny. Compare those records to the public statements by Tesla. There may be some minor discrepancies, but I would expect the two most significant figures (two leftmost digits) of production number announcements are pretty accurate.

    For those who believe Elon is a huckster with no substance (hard to believe for anyone actually paying attention), then it's easy to believe the FBI is going to find something. For the rest of us who believe he's generally honest (though sometimes prone to exaggeration, or time blindness in his predictions), at worst the numbers in public announcements are only off by rounding errors.

    I believe the level of proof the FBI would need to actually file charges would include intent to deceive rather than just a minor, unintentional error. That's a fairly high bar and I strongly doubt this is going to go anywhere.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Love x 1
  11. Brando

    Brando Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,519
    Location:
    Bainbridge Island, WA
    FBI calls your employer. Wants to schedule an interview. Two or more agents show up at your workplace for the interview.
    OR
    FBI shows up at your house or apartment to do an interview.
    OR
    FBI tells you to come into their office for an interview - what do you tell your boss?

    Will this do your career any good? Would you possibly lose your job? Do you care to find out?

    From 1951 to 1955, the FBI operated a secret "Responsibilities Program" that distributed anonymous documents with evidence from FBI files of Communist affiliations on the part of teachers, lawyers, and others. Many people accused in these "blind memoranda" were fired without any further process.[22]

    read that again - secret - teachers lost their jobs (no due process - many don't even know what this means, look it up)
    Sadly, the FBI isn't your friend. With our surveillance state how do international drug cartels still operate? you get the idea.

    a white washed intro
    McCarthyism - Wikipedia
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Love x 1
  12. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    11,005
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY, USA
    Thankfully Tesla is verging on undamageable by this sort of harassment. Finally.

    In the 1950s, remember, the Communist Party was totally legal (protected by the 1st Amendment), so *as long as you were independently wealthy*, there wasn't a hell of a lot they could do to you. Not many communists were independently wealthy, of course. So people were harassed using financial power.
     
  13. oneday

    oneday Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2014
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Bay Area
    Tesla's Ride Gets Bumpier

    Cheddar video interview of Dana Cimilluca, one of the authors of last Friday’s WSJ hit piece, talking about the article, why he published it, and saying that the DoJ has increased their investigation since the SEC case.

    There isn’t really anything new, but it is a decent interview and they have really great Tesla videos running in the background. I’d say it’s worth a watch, especially because of the nice Tesla factory footage they were playing in the background.
     
  14. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    5,374
    Location:
    Clark Co, WA
    I know a lot of defense lawyers. Unfortunately those with the money for a good lawyer get the best representation and those too foolish to lawyer up, or without the resources get screwed just about every time. Tesla is not the richest company in the world, but they have enough money to afford decent lawyers who will make sure the FBI does everything by the book.

    The dark days of the McCarthy era is not one of the high points in American history. And McCarthy was chasing a dying movement. Communism in the US had a following in the 1930s, but membership started dropping off a cliff when the horrors of what the Russians did in eastern Europe at the end of the war came out. The FBI had infiltrated the communist movement in the 30s and membership was so low by the mid-50s many chapters were run by FBI agents and when the FBI determined the communist party was no longer any kind of threat, there were more FBI agents undercover than actual communists.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  15. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Messages:
    6,257
    Fascinating and starkly amusing but, as per this thread's title, is there any truth therein?
     
  16. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    5,374
    Location:
    Clark Co, WA
    True, we are wandering off topic. I'm bad at that...

    I was going from memory of something I read many years ago. According to this
    https://www.amazon.com/J-Edgar-Hoover-Man-Secrets/dp/0393321282

    by 1957 membership had declined to 10,000 of which 1,500 were FBI agents. My bad. But back to Tesla stuff...
     
    • Like x 1
  17. Brando

    Brando Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,519
    Location:
    Bainbridge Island, WA
    high school teachers still lost their jobs, Hollywood blacklist also - and if you think FBI is somehow reformed
    google search: fbi stings terrorist
    Also note: FBI refuses to keep any stats on police killing of anyone. never happens? search that topic.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    5,374
    Location:
    Clark Co, WA
    We're off topic, I think @AudubonB may have been hinting to drop it. I'm not disagreeing with you though. My only point is that individuals and organizations with the funds to employ good lawyers tend to get more by the book investigations because law enforcement knows that anything they bring will be challenged in court if there is any wiggle room. People and organizations with good resources to defend themselves don't get the same type of scrutiny because the investigators know the case will probably not get a robust defense.
     
    • Like x 1
  19. mspohr

    mspohr Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    4,288
    Location:
    California
    #1939 mspohr, Nov 1, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2018
    Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
    You'll Need 286 Pounds of Coal to Fuel That Electric Road Trip
    The article is actually mostly good but the headline writer couldn't pass up the opportunity to bash EVs.
    If you take the time to read the article, it turns out that EVs (even when "coal fueled") produce less CO2 than any other fuel source. Of course, only backward areas get 100% of their electricity from coal and that is rare.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 1
    • Funny x 1
  20. PeterK

    PeterK Model X & 3 Owner

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,616
    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Unfortunately the headline comes off slanted, and many people never read past the headline...
     
    • Like x 2

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC