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Artificial lag/delay from 0-10mph?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by zer0cool, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. zer0cool

    zer0cool Member

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    Just got my Model 3 this past weekend and noticed an interest dynamic concerning its acceleration.

    Basically instead of outputting full torque at 0, the car feels artificially slowed / limited in the first half seconds or so. I have owned / driven both AWD and older RWD Model S cars and never experienced that.

    One thing I have read / seen is that a few months ago, several reviewers measured real world RWD 0-60 in the mid 4's but then later reviews are all at 5.1. So I assume Tesla software-limited acceleration? Is that what happened?

    If so, it's kind of ridiculous to limit performance at the place where EVs shine the most, at the get-go... If they really want to limit it in order to sell more AWDs for now, maybe slightly slow down the acceleration after 40mph instead.

    If the software limit is true, I hope they remove it some months down the line like they did for the Model S 75s. It's annoying to feel something basically like a turbo lag when the biggest driving dynamic advantage of an EV is its instant torque.
     
  2. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Not really.

    Professional car mags tested it 4.8-5.1 from the start.

    Guy from dragtimes got 4.6 with his vbox but I'm not aware of anyone else getting that.

    One guy on youtube, going downhill, got 4.4, but nobody else did.

    As far as I know nobody has retested recently and shown any slower speeds than they got originally.
     
  3. zer0cool

    zer0cool Member

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    IC, but do others notice this lag? I never noticed it in a Model S.
     
  4. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    I believe the LR Model 3 is limited in many ways artificially and nothing wrong with that due to product cannibalization issues. 310 range when real world is 330+? That's a CRAZY antisell.

    Keep in mind that the Model X 75D 0-60 is 4.9S.

    You do not want the 3 taking away sales from the pricier vehicles.

    AWD is actually too cheap @ 4.5. But 11K was the maximum they felt they could charge for 3.5 so thats how the pricing worked out.
     
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  5. ppower

    ppower Member

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    I rented a RWD and felt the same thing. It felt software limited until at least 20mph. It is still quick, but that was a strange thing to be limiting. That said, upper 4 second times even with that limitation is amazing.
     
  6. ba2002

    ba2002 Member

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    It's been reported that people feel the acceleration of the model 3 has a bit of a flat spot as it starts off - I'm no expert, but I vaguely remember someone saying it had something to do with the different (permanent magnet?) type of motor in the RWD model 3 vs the Model S RWD and AWD.

    The AWD model 3 apparently has 1 motor like the RWD model 3, and 1 motor like the model S/X. Apparently the Model 3 RWD motor is more efficient, but the Model S motor has better power delivery.

    I'm sure someone on here is more educated than me and can confirm/refute this.
     
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  7. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    No, that's right... perm mag rear, induction (like S/X) front

    One other thing to consider in S vs 3 for feel-- the S is like 1000 lbs heavier- so there's more traction at each tire available at launch.

    Don't think we've seen anybody do a calibrated 0-60 test on a model 3 after swapping on wider/stickier tires, have we?
     
  8. Ejl80

    Ejl80 Supporting Member

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    The stock tires on these cars are not designed for traction. Any vehicle I've owned with this much torque had to artificially limit power until underway until I put drag radials or pure summer tires on the car.
     
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  9. tread

    tread Member

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    I haven't gotten my 3 yet, but if they did indeed nerf the acceleration, then putting it at 0 -10 mph or 0 - 20 mph when you think about it really does make the most sense:
    • Saves the tires from possible burnout
    • Taking the time to fine tune a new acceleration curve from 0 - 60 is a lot more difficult than just flattening it in one small range than letting the normal acceleration take over
    • Limiting the acceleration after 40 mph wouldn't make sense to me. If I'm feeling a linear acceleration happening and then dropping off, even if in the slightest, will be a lot more jarring than a slow start
    If the acceleration was reduced by software, I'm confident that eventually they'll tune it back up once sales have plateaued.
     
  10. irwiny

    irwiny Member

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    Try the chill mode and then tell let us if you think it is lagging.
     
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  11. fr100

    fr100 Member

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    On the upside, it is extending your tire tread life.
     
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  12. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Active Member

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    This topic keeps coming up. Yet, so little data. An accurate accelerometer will answer the question if there is limiting and for how long. We should see nearly instantaneous peak torque. All the early data I've seen shows clean acceleration values, but there is little data and it's old. IMO, Tesla has turned up the traction control to be far too conservative. Maybe awesome in snow, but too big brother for dry launches. If someone puts some real rubber on and does an accurate before and after, we'd see if that's true. This all gets answered with measurements and data.
     
  13. Remonster

    Remonster Member

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    I was gonna say... Are you sure it's not in Chill Mode?
     
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  14. Krash

    Krash Data Technician

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    You know what really extends your tire life? Not driving your car. You can easily get five years out of them that way. Sometimes more if you stretch it.
     
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  15. bradhs

    bradhs Member

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    I just test drove a Model 3 AWD Performance and I understand what you're talking about. Compared to my P85D the 3 takes off from 0-20 much smoother, and without as much vigor. If I had to guess the power curve it starts off okay then ramps up after 30MPH whereas with the P85D it starts off crazy then at 45 takes a nosedive.
     
  16. Asymmetry

    Asymmetry Member

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    I test drove a P85+ when it came out I would say the same thing coming from a ye olde cable throttle car.

    It has to be limited otherwise it would just skid and crash. I work with electric turbo molecular pumps, those things are scary when they click on, its like a huge gun, huge power instantly, there is no way a car can handle utilizing 100% from 0. If I do a 4K launch in my WRX it smokes all four wheels and that's got SFA torque compared to a Tesla.

    So I'd say your suspicion is correct, that the torque ramp is slower than it could be but there needs to some sort of ramp. Degree of the ramp is probably to do where the car is in the product line rather than its potential.
     
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  17. MountainPass

    MountainPass Vendor

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    I've noticed this as well. You want data? Here's the data. It takes 208ms seconds to go from 0 to 0.55 G's of acceleration. Don't mind the massive spikes in longitudinal G - there were rumble strips on this road that vibrate the hell out of the accelerometer at those points.

    Accel-Delay.jpg

    Here is the same accel plot from Blue Lightning - our Lotus Evora with a Model S drive unit, which takes only 100ms.

    Accel-Delay_BlueLightning.jpg

    If this is a limitation of the PMSR motor, it suggests that certainly the induction machine is the weapon of choice for burnout competitions.
     
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  18. iwannam3

    iwannam3 Member

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    At the dragstrip I got identical times & speed as an S60. My bet is they programmed it so the lighter Model 3 with a bigger battery won't beat the slowest S. Also a lot of Drive Units on the early S's were replaced, they may also be holding to 0 to 20 output on the 3 to prevent that from happening again. They did add an external screw on oil filter on the 3 to help DU lifetime. My dream is Elon will uncork the 3 after getting lots of data and few DU failures on the Model 3.
     
  19. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Active Member

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    I don't think this data shows that the torque is limited. The torque curve is flat. It shows that the "jerk" (the rate of change of acceleration) is limited. Even if it were somehow able to go to maximum torque instantly that would only improve acceleration by 100ms. Perception though may be different from reality though. Increasing the jerk could make the car feel much faster.
     
  20. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Active Member

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    So the question is when rolling at 30mph and mashing the accelerator does the torque ramp up faster? That would explain the perception of faster acceleration from a roll.
     
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