Ask Me Anything -- Motor Trend's Jonny Lieberman Defends Picking the Benz

[bonnie]

Predictable that this thread wasn't going to end well. Jonny, while I applaud your willingness to come here, I have to say that I've been surprised reading through this thread to see how unwilling you've been to take in any new information and even consider for a moment that you may need to rethink a part of your opinion (not rethink which car is better, but perhaps rethink some of your position). The rigidity of your position is not what I expected and I'm sorry to see that. I really was hoping for a good discussion here.

There's room for both ICE and EV on the road. And clearly you're an ICE guy. For now. Peace.

 

[jonnylieberman]

These words have pure bias built in. The drivetrain of the S-class is junk compared to the Model S. When you take into account the total cost of ownership for each, there really is no comparison. How much of a factor is the free gasoline you get for the vehicles you drive? My guess is that makes a huge difference.

Junk? That's a ridiculous comment, and one that's dripping with "pure bias." Let's say I live in Germany and would like to go 155 mph, a speed at which the "pure junk" S-Class is totally cool at but that the Model S can't go. I know this because years ago I took a Model S up to 132 mph for three miles (closed circuit, Hyundai's proving ground in California City on their 6-mile oval).

Cost of ownership, sure the Tesla may win. What about reliability? The red Model S we used for this comparison showed up with three glitches, one being that the traction and stability control would randomly turn off. As for free gas, not even kinda a consideration.

 

[dsm363]

I agree. A little disappointed not to have an honest back and forth with a good exchange of ideas and experiences. Was expecting more as well but doesn't look like that will happen.

There definitely is room for both as neither car is the better or prefect car for all people.

Well your review took place in the United States. Didn't it? If you had said this car doesn't work for you because you need to drive 155mph then I would understand.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

So the interior is plush and there is awesome lighting in the S550 but does the back seat fold down for sweeet supercharger love making?
My S has a disco screen app and a plush bed.
I'd so buy you a beer right now ;> ..wait that almost sounds creepy here, what I mean is it's cool you came here to be assaulted some.

and I'd totally take you up on an autocross XJR challenge.

 

[jonnylieberman]

Get smoked by the M5? Your clearly do your research.
Tesla Model S vs BMW M5 Drag Race - YouTube

The M5 is definitely a better track car but it doesn't 'smoke' the P85+ in every instance.

You're not even reading what I'm writing. The M5 is a pretty blah car and I'd MUCH rather have/drive a Tesla than it. The Tesla would SMOKE the M5 in the comparison.

 

[Jaff]

I'm not debating it!! And if you REALLY cared about the environment, you'd be driving a Nissan Leaf! [QUOTE


Whoa, a bit of a slippery slope here Jonny...do you state this because the Leaf had a better emileage rating than the Model S? If so, do you not realize that the emilage rating of the Leaf vs Model S (EV vs EV) is of minimal environmental impact when compared with the environmental differences between an EV and an ICE...

Statements like this don't help your cred...

 

[DrComputer]

I totally compared them. Hence, comparable.

It's statements like this that clearly show that Motor Trend and you are in the infotainment business and not the journalism industry.

 

[dsm363]

You're not even reading what I'm writing. The M5 is a pretty blah car and I'd MUCH rather have/drive a Tesla than it. The Tesla would SMOKE the M5 in the comparison.

Sorry. I misread it. I actually think it would be an interesting comparison. The P85+ isn't a great track car in terms of driving all day and multiple laps and comparing that to the M5 and pointing out the drawbacks for someone who has that concern is valid.

 

[jonnylieberman]

Predictable that this thread wasn't going to end well. Jonny, while I applaud your willingness to come here, I have to say that I've been surprised reading through this thread to see how unwilling you've been to take in any new information and even consider for a moment that you may need to rethink a part of your opinion (not rethink which car is better, but perhaps rethink some of your position). The rigidity of your position is not what I expected and I'm sorry to see that. I really was hoping for a good discussion here.

There's room for both ICE and EV on the road. And clearly you're an ICE guy. For now. Peace.

Rethink my position? I've been one of the Model S's literal biggest advocates. Again, my Tesla credentials are that I voted it MT's 2013 Car of the Year, the first (and I'll argue most important) award the car won. Every single thing that's been said, I've said, both personally and professionally. I also think it would be awesome if as a race we never burned another drop of oil.

That said, the S-Class is the better car. The Tesla's close, and I'm very excited to see the next gen Model S, but it's just not there yet.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry. I misread it. I actually think it would be an interesting comparison. The P85+ isn't a great track car and comparing that to the M5 and pointing out the drawbacks for someone who has that concern is valid.

The M5 isn't a great track car, either. Honestly, having spent a great deal of time in both, the Model S would be a great track car if the battery didn't always overheat. It drives much better than the BMW M5, especially at the limit.

- - - Updated - - -

It's statements like this that clearly show that Motor Trend and you are in the infotainment business and not the journalism industry.

It's statements like this that clearly show you're in the no sense of humor business. Cars = serious!!!

But again, for people that just want to buy an expensive car -- and I've lived in Los Angeles for most of my life and am quite well versed on the subject -- these two match up very well. They're quite comparable, especially as they're the two best selling full-sized luxury cars in the U.S.

 

[dsm363]

Rethink my position? I've been one of the Model S's literal biggest advocates. Again, my Tesla credentials are that I voted it MT's 2013 Car of the Year, the first (and I'll argue most important) award the car won. Every single thing that's been said, I've said, both personally and professionally. I also think it would be awesome if as a race we never burned another drop of oil.

That said, the S-Class is the better car. The Tesla's close, and I'm very excited to see the next gen Model S, but it's just not there yet.

And that's fine. Your opinion. I hope you'll update the written portion of your website with more details about the issues we brought up and provide more 'detail' on why you think it is better. You seemed to discount and ignore many of the points people brought up here in your review.

 

[jonnylieberman]

I'm not debating it!! And if you REALLY cared about the environment, you'd be driving a Nissan Leaf! [QUOTE


Whoa, a bit of a slippery slope here Jonny...do you state this because the Leaf had a better emileage rating than the Model S? If so, do you not realize that the emilage rating of the Leaf vs Model S (EV vs EV) is of minimal environmental impact when compared with the environmental differences between an EV and an ICE...

Statements like this don't help your cred...

You let me worry about "my cred."

And if you really cared... Leaf.

 

[qwk]

Junk? That's a ridiculous comment, and one that's dripping with "pure bias." Let's say I live in Germany and would like to go 155 mph, a speed at which the "pure junk" S-Class is totally cool at but that the Model S can't go. I know this because years ago I took a Model S up to 132 mph for three miles (closed circuit, Hyundai's proving ground in California City on their 6-mile oval).

Cost of ownership, sure the Tesla may win. What about reliability? The red Model S we used for this comparison showed up with three glitches, one being that the traction and stability control would randomly turn off. As for free gas, not even kinda a consideration.

Not ridiculous at all. The Model S is the smoothest 400hp vehicle that one can get. One gear, with no shifting, is unbeatable. People that buy performance vehicles buy them for the drive experience. As far as reliability, are you kidding me? A twin turbo ICE vs and electric motor? Hundreds of moving parts vs one? LOL. Like I said, owning and paying for vehicles is totally different than a few free test drives. If you knew anything about anything, you would know this.

 

[dsm363]

Even Tesla doesn't classify it as a 'luxury' car because other than the price, it isn't.

As I pointed out above, the S550 has a starting price of over $20,000 more than the Model S. The $120,000 P85+ has basically the same luxury as the base 60 kWh version. $20,000 buys a lot of gadgets and interior quality.

 

[dsm363]

I would encourage someone at Motor Trend to install a 14-50 outlet and live with the car for a few months. That is a vastly different experience that driving one for a week on a 120V outlet.

 

[aronth5]

Certainly an interesting thread and jonnylieberman I appreciate your willingness to discuss your opinion here, most reviewers run for cover. One question I have is to what extent did you use the smart phone capabilities that separate the S from any other car?
Did that factor into your decision at all since it wasn't mentioned that I recall? For example, the fact that you can remotely set the car's interior temperature to a comfortable 70 degrees when its 90+ degrees or below freezing outsize. Now that's comfort!

 

[Jaff]

You are over the top now...no sense continuing with you...

You let me worry about "my cred."

And if you really cared... Leaf.

 

[dsm363]

Certainly an interesting thread and jonnylieberman I appreciate your willingness to discuss your opinion here, most reviewers run for cover. One question I have is to what extent did you use the smart phone capabilities that separate the S from any other car?
Did that factor into your decision at all since it wasn't mentioned that I recall? For example, the fact that you can remotely set the car's interior temperature to a comfortable 70 degrees when its 90+ degrees or below freezing outsize. Now that's comfort!

Exactly. Everyone has different criteria for a 'better' car. To some people up north I bet if you told them that they can pre-heat their car in the garage with the door closed each morning they would think that feature alone is big.

 

[roblab]

Johnny has an OPINION. Just as we all do. I'm OK with that, and he defends his opinion well.

One thing Johnny does not seem to have is experience to make the range anxiety go away: You begin to know how far you can go when your car says it has 60 miles range, or more likely, I would have already charged it up after racing around the track a few times. You know the limitations, just as with any gas car. You grew up with gas cars and you know, in your gut, all the things you can't do with a gas car. Like drive the gas gauge down to quarter tank and then say something like "you don't really have 60 miles range if you punch it." As if a Mercedes gas gauge will tell you anything like how far you have to go.

We knew that.

The difference here is, most of us on this forum HEAVILY discount gas cars from the beginning. Johnny is OK with 16 miles per gallon. Of gasoline. Really? I could not live with that. Being Electric gives the Model S a thousand more points from the start of this face off, and plush interiors and "bulky" exterior looks can't ever swing that over.

But that's my opinion.

 

[RobStark]

You let me worry about "my cred."

And if you really cared... Leaf.

If you really cared you would ride a bike or better yet put a bullet in your head.

Then there are making practical decisions that don't severely cramp your way of life and have positive externalities.

Buying a Model S is not only is it better for the environment but does not support the oil-terrorist complex prodding up dictatorships in Russia, Middle East and Venezuela.

And it helps fund further electrification down market. Nissan has done this only very half heartedly.


A V8 engine helps safety? LOL.

 

[onesixeight]

Jonny...first I want to say excellent review. I've been following you since you were at Autoblog. I rented the new S Class when I was in LA and it's a very impressive car. The distronic (ACC) with steering assist is amazing and must be experienced in person. I'm gonna be one of the few that agrees with Jonny's conclusion. The Model S has a very impressive drivetrain and infotainment system but the cabin of the car is no where as nice as the S-class. I hope this is where the Model S improves in the future and I have no doubt that the next generation Model S will improve in this area.

Like many have said, everyone has different priorities and if someone else was doing the review, the outcome might be different.

Thanks Jonny for coming out and facing the sharks. You're one of my favorite auto journalists and look forward to more of your videos!