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Asking Elon Questions

I didn't listen to the stockholder meeting but was told afterwards that he said the only significant reason it can't take DC is because it has the wrong kind of contactor. Did he actually say the Roadster never would be able to handle DC? The last time I had my PEM open it looked to me like a simple hardware kit could easily be installed to charge w/ DC. Then it's just a matter of replacing the contactor and related control circuit and firmware. It would not be 250 amps of course but the DC charger would handle that.
You are sorta right. The reason why the roadster is not able to handle DC current is because it does not have a high amperage Dc bypass that would allow the the direct current to charge the batteries directly avoiding the on board charger. All the power imputed for the roadster goes through the onboard charging system. In the model s there are two options for charging being the normal ac to dc conversion either 10 or 20 KW hour charging (depending on what you opt for) or a DC bypass that allows the 120KW to feed directly to the packs hence why the model s can be recharged so quickly. The roadster does not have the bypass hence it is limited to only a high amperage ac charging. In theory the replacement would seem simple but we always have to bear in mind safety and reliability we have over 460 volts flowing through a very finite although heavy duty cable that must interact with the internal battery management system to maintain optimal longevity for the battery packs.
 
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Bobfitz1

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Sep 24, 2012
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JRP, I thought that The MS came out in June and SC came in Sept. Not exactly "marketed with".

Henry, Elon said in the last Stockholder meeting that the Roadster can't handle DC and never would.

The closer they put the SC together on the highways the more frustrating it is for Roadster owners that there in not a HPC at each site.

Agree 100%. The cost to have one at each location is so minimal for the company, it would just be a class gesture to all the Roadster owners who helped phase I of business plan work as planned.
 

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
22,757
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-Moving past Gen 3 being the mass market vehicle, Are there an plans to go even more mainstream possibly with a pricing structure that would allow an environmentally minded college student to afford a sub 300 dollar payment per month for a lease.ex Instead of getting a honda civic a tesla becomes comparable when considering savings from gas , maintenance etc
That demand is probably going to be handled by the used car market, eventually. I don't want to see Tesla go too far "down market".
 
The question I will ask at TESLIVE if I have a chance is in regards to hardware upgrades. I plan to keep my car for many years, but there are a number of hardware components that I will likely want to upgrade over time. I'm happy to pay for HW upgrades if they are made available. For example:
* 3G -> 4G
* CPU Upgrades as needed by newer SW features
* Battery upgrades (60 -> 85 or larger - seems possible in future via battery swap)
* Proximity sensors
* ...
 

hcsharp

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Jun 7, 2011
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You are sorta right. The reason why the roadster is not able to handle DC current is because it does not have a high amperage Dc bypass that would allow the the direct current to charge the batteries directly avoiding the on board charger. All the power imputed for the roadster goes through the onboard charging system. ...

If you read my post you will see that I wrote that a simple hardware kit could be installed in Roadster PEM. There is a direct battery connection right at the end of the PEM, and it wouldn't take much to make the connections with proper switching to the charge port. The DC bypass is the easy part, and not the major limiting factor. As Elon said, the more difficult limitation to overcome is the contactor type. I don't know if that's because of where it's located or something to do with the control circuitry.

... In theory the replacement would seem simple but we always have to bear in mind safety and reliability we have over 460 amps flowing through a very finite although heavy duty cable that must interact with the internal battery management system to maintain optimal longevity for the battery packs.

The direct cable from the PEM to the battery already routinely handles 700 - 900 amps (short bursts) so there's no cable safety issue with DC charging at 100A or so which is probably more than the Roadster cells can handle. They are not capable of the C rate that the MS cells are, and it's a smaller pack to begin with. The MS never handles 460 amps when charging either. The existing cable from the charge port to the PEM might have to be upgraded when changed over to a TSLA II plug but even that is probably big enough. It's currently rated for at least 100A in an automotive application, but not sure if that's a continuous rating. Obviously it would need extensive testing but I don't see any insurmountable hurdles if Tesla wanted to do it.

Elon mentions the contactor but I suspect the real reason is their engineers can generate a lot more value by working on cars and upgrades with a bigger market. I never really believed him when he said what will make Tesla different from other automakers is they won't make bad decisions because of bean counters who are disconnected from reality.
 
(Can't believe no-one has mentioned this first one)

*** When will the Model S be offered with All-Wheel Drive ? (presumably the two-motor version from the Model X)
*** Has Tesla considered expanding the range of available paint colours ?
*** What is Tesla's claimed 0-60 time for the Performance Plus Model S ?
 

Benz

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Nov 15, 2012
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That demand is probably going to be handled by the used car market, eventually. I don't want to see Tesla go too far "down market".

Please allow me to disagree. There is a difference in the demand for new cars and the demand for used cars. People who want to buy a new car will end up doing exactly that, even if they will have to switch to a different brand.

Therefore, I would like to repeat my questions to Elon Musk:

At the moment I can think of these questions:

My first question: "After the Tesla EV's on the "Generation 3 platform" (2016/2017-????), will there also be Tesla EV's on the "Generation 4 platform" that will result in even cheaper Tesla EV's?"

My second question: "Can you give us your rough guess regarding in what year the first Tesla EV on the "Generation 4 platform" might be manufactured?"

My third question: "Can you give us your rough guess regarding what the starting price of the base model of the Tesla EV on the "Generation 4 platform" then might be?"

My fourth question: "When do you think that Tesla Motors will begin with releasing their MONTHLY sales figures like most of the car manufacturers already do?"
 
If you read my post you will see that I wrote that a simple hardware kit could be installed in Roadster PEM. There is a direct battery connection right at the end of the PEM, and it wouldn't take much to make the connections with proper switching to the charge port. The DC bypass is the easy part, and not the major limiting factor. As Elon said, the more difficult limitation to overcome is the contactor type. I don't know if that's because of where it's located or something to do with the control circuitry.



The direct cable from the PEM to the battery already routinely handles 700 - 900 amps (short bursts) so there's no cable safety issue with DC charging at 100A or so which is probably more than the Roadster cells can handle. They are not capable of the C rate that the MS cells are, and it's a smaller pack to begin with. The MS never handles 460 amps when charging either. The existing cable from the charge port to the PEM might have to be upgraded when changed over to a TSLA II plug but even that is probably big enough. It's currently rated for at least 100A in an automotive application, but not sure if that's a continuous rating. Obviously it would need extensive testing but I don't see any insurmountable hurdles if Tesla wanted to do it.

Elon mentions the contactor but I suspect the real reason is their engineers can generate a lot more value by working on cars and upgrades with a bigger market. I never really believed him when he said what will make Tesla different from other automakers is they won't make bad decisions because of bean counters who are disconnected from reality.


In short i am very privy to the needs and limitations of batteries. i fly helicopters in real life as well as rc helicopters in which can be unforgiving if you do no not know how to properly handle battery charging. I mis typed and i meant 460 volts. The Roadster pack is only 55KW and is of a older generation thus yes it cannot handle the same rate of charge as the model s. But hypothetically speaking if the roadster had the same connector and associate hardware to accept dc charging could the batteries handle it? Yes they could handle dc charging but not at the 120 or even 90kw rate. The Superchargers dont just turn on and just start dumping 120KW into a pack .Communication goes back and forth between the car and supercharger so if a roadster pulled into a supercharger (pending it had the capability) the supercharger would know say "hey this is a 55kw old gen pack were going to reduce the rate of charge to ex 40KW" Leaving dc fast charging for roadster owners.. Ive read you're post and asserting that a simple hardware kit would solve the issue it begs me the questions why it has not been done yet? Tesla mission statement is to allow evs to become a common place mode of transportation within our society if the conversion was reasonably priced considering roadster owners payed over 100,000 dollars then im sure elon musk would have made the announcement. no? Thats just my line of thought
 

AudubonB

One can NOT induce accuracy with precision!
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Mar 24, 2013
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Snarky question:

"It is July, 2013. At what price in today's market should one short TSLA?"

Real-life answer if as a CEO or IR one ever is presented with such cr*p: "At any price higher than the current Ask. Next question."
 

Cosmacelf

Well-Known Member
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Mar 6, 2013
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There were statements by a reporter in a recently published article that the Model X is undergoing some design changes from the prototypes that have been shown. Specifically that the wheelbase will be longer, and the back hatch will be more square to allow for more storage. Are these rumors true?
 

AnOutsider

S532 # XS27
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Apr 3, 2009
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There were statements by a reporter in a recently published article that the Model X is undergoing some design changes from the prototypes that have been shown. Specifically that the wheelbase will be longer, and the back hatch will be more square to allow for more storage. Are these rumors true?

That would make me happy. Both the S and out q5 sometimes run Into issues with the curves glass stopping something from fitting. Range rover square might be too much, but it would be functional
 

hcsharp

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Jun 7, 2011
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... Yes they could handle dc charging but not at the 120 or even 90kw rate.
... Ive read you're post and asserting that a simple hardware kit would solve the issue it begs me the questions why it has not been done yet? ...

I'd like to ask you the favor of reading my posts, perhaps a little more thoroughly, before responding to them. I never said "that a simple hardware kit would solve the issue..." I did say that it could potentially be used to make a direct DC connection, or DC bypass. I also specifically said that the Roadster pack could not handle anywhere near the same rate of DC charging as a MS pack due to fundamental differences in the cells. I think we agree on most of the technical aspects of DC charging for a Roadster. I have a lot more experience with Roadsters, their hardware and charging system so I felt compelled to respond to some of your comments that contained misinformation like suggesting the cables couldn't safely handle 460A (later corrected) when in fact they don't need but a small fraction of that and they already handle over 400 volts, and rated for much more. I think we both agree there would be several hurdles, the extent of which is unknown.

At TESLIVE I was disappointed that Elon didn't really answer any of the Roadster questions that he was asked.
 
I would like to ask Elon / Tesla Model "gen 3" team the following questions

1. Any chance the Gen 3 will be called Pulse ?

2. Is Tesla open to emerging technologies which doesn't involves batteries ?

3. Any word on city charging ?

4. Given how Roadster was not successful in Singapore, any chance of Tesla Motors re-entering Singapore market ?
 

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
22,757
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Central New York
When will the Tesla riding mower (gas versions pollute as much as 30 ICE cars) be available?
It's a pretty simple conversion job, especially if you're using a hydrostatic drive, you don't even need a speed controller, just an on/off switch, a motor, and some batteries. Basically I don't think it's worthy of Tesla engineering or technology.
 

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