At this point, FSD would be worth the price if all it did was turn off AP nag!

[tranzndance]

It was ridiculous when I got the nag while using Auto lane change with the method of holding the turn indicator with my hand in the direction of the lane. I was trying to pay attention to that lane. Good thing I looked at the dash to confirm that the car was over the blue line. I had to wiggle the steering wheel to get rid of the nag.

 

[mongo]

It was ridiculous when I got the nag while using Auto lane change with the method of holding the turn indicator with my hand in the direction of the lane. I was trying to pay attention to that lane. Good thing I looked at the dash to confirm that the car was over the blue line. I had to wiggle the steering wheel to get rid of the nag.

That's a good idea to use the turn signal input as another data source, perhaps tweet it to Elon?

Also, I believe If AP is less uncertain about the situation, it will also nag/ increase nag rate.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

if the new releases were properly detecting the presence of one or both hands on the steering wheel, we wouldn't be seeing any complaints about the nag.

The nag problem is due to a flaw in how Tesla is detecting the presence of hands on the steering wheel. Even if both hands are on the wheel, the new software doesn't detect them - instead, the software requires that you periodically move the steering wheel slightly, but not enough to disengage EAP.

The hand detection appears to be different on our 2017 S 100D vs. our 2018 X 100D. On our S, we aren't seeing the nags - keeping hands on the wheel seem to be sufficient to avoid getting the nags. On our X, you have to also do the "wiggle" periodically.

In the early days of EAP - everyone was wiggling the steering wheel under AutoSteer, because the software tended to "ping pong" from side to side in the lane. Since it became "silky smooth", we haven't needed to do that, except when AutoSteer misinterprets the lane lines (exit ramps, highway splits, construction areas, …).

We should all continue to complain about the overaggressive nag. It's likely Tesla over-reacted to use of devices like the "Buddy" which tried to defeat hand detection, and that we could see Tesla dial this down in subsequent releases.

Though if people continue talking about ways to defeat the hand detection (or worse post videos about it), Tesla may be forced to make the nag even more aggressive...

Just a note: 1 hand works far better than 2.

 

[tranzndance]

That's a good idea to use the turn signal input as another data source, perhaps tweet it to Elon?

Also, I believe If AP is less uncertain about the situation, it will also nag/ increase nag rate.

I'm not bold enough to tweet to Elon, but I submitted it as feedback in the account section of my car

 

[d21mike]

This subject is discussed a lot in many threads. Nothing new will come from this thread. But at least we should stay on topic. The OP wants to have NO HANDS on the Wheel. Why discuss if 2 hands are safer then 1 hand when trying to recommend a workaround for the OP.

I think it a extremely clear in many treads that using 1 hand with slight resistance or slight force when required it the simplest workaround. Of course with using something like a water bottle.

However, I did find the post about using you knees interesting and a bit different then I have read.

 

[aaron0k]

Spending money on Elon's vaporware seems, well "fool me twice, shame on..."

Instead buy a Comma.ai NEO and retrofit

Geohot beat Elon to real hands-free driving without the hoopla and empty promises. They deserve the investment...

 

[mongo]

Nothing new will come from this thread.

This is the first time I've heard the idea of the turn signal as an attention indicator.

 

[d21mike]

This is the first time I've heard the idea of the turn signal as an attention indicator.

I was actually confused about that post. But prior to the change in frequency of the NAG a youtuber did a video where you can use changing the speed up and down and also auto lane change to indicate you are paying attention and reduce the frequency of the NAG without hands on the wheel. And since then I have noticed it repeated by others. However, these options seem to be more trouble then simply 1 hand on the wheel.

 

[tranzndance]

I was actually confused about that post. But prior to the change in frequency of the NAG a youtuber did a video where you can use changing the speed up and down and also auto lane change to indicate you are paying attention and reduce the frequency of the NAG without hands on the wheel. And since then I have noticed it repeated by others. However, these options seem to be more trouble then simply 1 hand on the wheel.

Funny enough, I do keep my hands on the wheel while using Auto lane change so that a bump on the road doesn't make me lose hold of the turn stick before the car completed the lane change.

 

[apacheguy]

It is possible to downgrade, but it's quite an involved procedure for sure. I know people that did it. And this is what makes it different from FSD

Downgrading I assume would either involve overwriting the gateway firmware or exploiting Tesla’s firmware sanity checks. I know they definitely did implement a sanity check somewhere along the line to prevent downgrades.

 

[appleguru]

Downgrading I assume would either involve overwriting the gateway firmware or exploiting Tesla’s firmware sanity checks. I know they definitely did implement a sanity check somewhere along the line to prevent downgrades.

I was thinking wiping/a full factory redeploy (like they do when they replace your MCU).

Didn’t tesla remotely downgrade @wk057’s car at one point?

 

[apacheguy]

I was thinking wiping/a full factory redeploy (like they do when they replace your MCU).

Didn’t tesla remotely downgrade @wk057’s car at one point?

They tried to. Of course, that was way before code signing was implemented.

When they replace the MCU this is not a problem since the gateway and CID are part of the same unit and therefore run the same firmware. The gateway implements most of the sanity checks so it would not be a problem to redeploy whichever firmware version it has to the various components over CAN. At any rate, they always seem to do a firmware update anyway so downgrading is never needed.

 

[verygreen]

Downgrading I assume would either involve overwriting the gateway firmware or exploiting Tesla’s firmware sanity checks. I know they definitely did implement a sanity check somewhere along the line to prevent downgrades.

As anything software - those things are never perfect

 

[mongo]

As anything software - those things are never perfect

Sure, but assuming the bootloader can be updated, they can make a higher version than doesn't care about downgrading (and can handle any specific steps needed).

 

[thegruf]

...
We should all continue to complain about the overaggressive nag. It's likely Tesla over-reacted to use of devices like the "Buddy" which tried to defeat hand detection, and that we could see Tesla dial this down in subsequent releases.

Though if people continue talking about ways to defeat the hand detection (or worse post videos about it), Tesla may be forced to make the nag even more aggressive...

I'm thinking it was likely the NHTSA compelled Tesla to make the changes, Tesla probably had a warning from the last accident that if there were further accidents Tesla would have to be more assertive about enssuring driver attention.
And yes, every imbecile that uses and then demonstrates and in at least one case even sells their defeat method of a safety system is quite simply heading towards AP being hobbled ever more for the rest of us.