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At what point do you own the car?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Kelmn07, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. Kelmn07

    Kelmn07 Member

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    For a home delivery, at what point are you considered to own the car? I've signed all paperwork and paid in full, and my CU did the title work so I can even register it at this point. Is there other paperwork that will need to be signed once it's delivered?

    My 3 has been parked in New Jersey for 3 weeks now waiting for a non-essential part, I'm wondering how much longer they can legally hold this car for or if I'm effectively the owner at this point (and could possibly cite lemon law to get it moving)? Apologies for posting twice, as I posted last week but another week has gone by and just needed to vent. It's just so frustrating feeling this helpless, with no recourse or options or visibility into what is happening nor a timeline on when I'll get my car...(that shipped over a month ago!) o_O :mad: :(
     
  2. drj3

    drj3 Member

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    From the Tesla Motor Vehicle Order Agreement: "If you wish to pick up your Vehicle in a state where we are not licensed to sell the Vehicle, or if you and Tesla otherwise agree, Tesla will, on your behalf, coordinate the shipment of your Vehicle to you from our factory in California or another state where we are licensed to sell the Vehicle. In such a case, you agree that this is a shipment contract under which Tesla will coordinate the shipping of the Vehicle to you via a third-party common carrier. You agree that delivery of the Vehicle, including the transfer of title and risk of loss to you, will occur at the time your Vehicle is loaded onto the common carrier’s transport (i.e., FOB shipping point). The carrier will insure your Vehicle while in transit and you will be the beneficiary of any claims for damage to the Vehicle or losses occurring while the Vehicle is in the possession of a common carrier."

    So you own it once Tesla has turned the car over to the transport company. What is your car waiting for? Is it still at a Tesla site?
     
  3. Kelmn07

    Kelmn07 Member

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    OK thank you for highlighting that part of it. I will continue waiting to register it. I will probably have my first payment due by the time I get this thing!

    It is at a service center in NJ and has been since the first week of June. The only details I can glean from my rep is a replacement part for the glove box. The story had changed multiple times and still no ETA. I tried offering to accept it without the part, to pick it up, tried asking for a supervisor/manager (rep claims he is the head of that department...). My hands appear to be completely tied.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  4. trunkmonkey

    trunkmonkey Member

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    I know several people in Texas had problems at delivery and refused the car. Tesla assigned new cars to them. However it is worded, it seems like possession is the key, not when it is handed over to the transport company.
     
  5. Kelmn07

    Kelmn07 Member

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    I thought of that too, what happens if we refuse delivery, if it's not up to snuff? It's already titled and if we already registered? And the loan is a specific VIN? Will be interesting to find out!
     
  6. trunkmonkey

    trunkmonkey Member

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    What I was told is that you aren't the owner until you take delivery. I had asked this question more for figuring out my delivery date and if the tax credit would affect when my car was shipped.

    You still sign for everything when the car arrives, so any pre-done paperwork is basically not in effect until then. Now, if you refuse your car and get a new one, then you will have to deal with more headaches and paperwork as everything basically needs done again for the new VIN (or they have some addendum paperwork or something).

    My car is fully paid for. I take delivery next weekend. I know I will still be signing papers at the service center before I leave. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
     
  7. webdbbt

    webdbbt Member

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    Wow, that must be frustrating. I also think the lack of clear responses from Tesla is unacceptable. I do agree that you are probably NOT the owner at this time, but if I was in your shoes I'd also want to know for certain. This is what I would do:
    1. Find out from your CU when they think you own the car / when payments are due. No way you should be paying/accruing interest on a car if you haven't taken possession. Also if your CU has really transferred the money, then this is costing them money too. This should be Tesla's expense.
    2. Escalate with Tesla. I find it hard to believe your rep is a manager/supervisor. Tell that person (nicely) that their answers are unacceptable, and you will take this to Tesla's social media pages. Often that can get results as it raises the profile of your issue.
    3. If you own TSLA stock you might even try asking Investor Relations to get you a higher-level contact who can personally handle your issue.
     
  8. Kelmn07

    Kelmn07 Member

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    In the CU's eyes, we own the car. We closed on the loan, the check was written, mailed, and cashed by Tesla. CU gave us the title paperwork to register.

    He claims to be head of home delivery and there is no one else we can speak to, but that was via email. Either way, he surely reports to someone that I can speak to.

    I've tried to not be a difficult customer, I've been nothing but understanding and I check in once, maybe twice a week via email. I'm losing patience though and hopefully a phone call with some sternness can help.
     
  9. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    Actually, if you have a loan technically you don’t own the car until it’s unencumbered, that is, the loan is paid off. Until then the title is encumbered by the bank or loan source.
     
  10. webdbbt

    webdbbt Member

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    I am also a person who generally avoids confrontation. I don't know what Tesla promises on home delivery, but 3 weeks after payment seems like a VERY long delay. I'd message Tesla on their Twitter, with basics like VIN, purchase date. Get some names. I hope (as a stockholder) that their Customer Relations will help (they are usually connected with Social Media.)

    You might also call your insurance company and ask about loss of use compensation--not from them, but from Tesla. They should be able to give you a value. I think Tesla owes you more than just the car.

    BTW, I'm in NJ. I want them to do right by you! My turn will be coming up soon.
     
  11. Kelmn07

    Kelmn07 Member

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    My call yesterday was not helpful other than for him to say he would call the service manager again as soon as we hung up, and if he had known it would take this long he would have assigned me another car. Still no ETA.

    I filled out the support form on tesla’s site but no response. I’ve tweeted @tesla several times with no response.

    On Monday I will try to call the service numbers on Tesla’s site and see if that doesn’t get me anywhere. Thanks for the tip about the insurance I will look into that.

    By ‘ownership’ I mean owner in the sense that’s it’s my name on the car. Once Tesla has the money, I am the owner. Lemon laws still apply to the ‘owner’ even if it has a loan and yes I realize I am not the legal ‘owner’ as it has a loan. I think most people refer to themselves as owners even with a loan.
     
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    • Informative x 1
  12. drj3

    drj3 Member

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    You might want to ask for a loaner vehicle. Others have posted about receiving loaner vehicles when there has been last minute delays in delivery. Driving a Model S will make the wait easier and maybe give Tesla more incentive to get your car delivered so they can get the loaner back.
     
    • Like x 3
  13. Kelmn07

    Kelmn07 Member

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    Welp, just tried calling the main customer service line and was just rerouted locally, which wasn't helpful since that's not where my car is. Attempted calling the NJ stores and they claim not to have insight into where the car is unless it's actually being delivered in that store even if it is in their lot awaiting serviceI. HUH?! Now to call my service advisor again, and plead for a loaner or something since we are now on our 4th week getting around with one car.

    This blows, I have lost all excitement for a car I've been dreaming of owning for more than 5 years >:|
    (dreamt of owning a Tesla, not the 3 specifically)
     
    • Like x 1
  14. webdbbt

    webdbbt Member

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    That really blows.

    I can't believe the NJ location doesn't know what is on their lot. Someone could at least go look for your VIN--the site is not that big! Maybe try calling the NJ store / SC first thing in the morning when people may be in a better mood and not as busy? Not that it should matter...

    It's possible they are stored off lot. There are a lot of car storage lots in N. Jersey to serve NY/NJ area.
     
  15. Kelmn07

    Kelmn07 Member

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    After my last post, my advisor called fully aware of me calling other locations, speaking to someone, and what they told me. He then told me that person was lying about not having any insight into my status. Hmm, odd on both ends. He then concluded that (miraculously) there was no longer a hold on my car and would be scheduled for transport at the next opportunity.

    Final update: Accepted delivery Saturday! Will post that experience separately.
     
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