AU Pricing

[Dark8]

Hi Guys,

new to the forum and new to Tesla.

2 weeks ago, I put an order in for an inventory stock 2018 MX 75D 7 seater bog standard - no EAP, no rims etc...with Carbon interior, white paint being the only options. I ordered it for $139k drive away in Victoria.

Whilst waiting for delivery, the price drop happened.....the first thing that came to my mind was, my resale value is now dead. I have a 40% balloon on my loan and prior to this, I was fairly convinced the resale value of these cars will hold pretty well. After this price drop i'm not so sure anymore. End of the day, the 40% balloon doesn't work out to be too much more money, but its still a pain in the backside.

The price drop news dropped on a Saturday, and I couldn't call the dealer until Monday, so my heart was sinking like a lead balloon for the whole weekend. On one hand, i was wondering if the prices have dropped enough for me to get into a 100D (or range mode).

Eventually got in contact with Tesla Richmond and they promised that the price adjustments will be passed onto me. So i'll save a bit more money that way. Might put it towards a set of rims or the AP/FSD options which I'm told i'll be able to order at a discounted rate also. I also looked at other options and upgrading to a 100D or even a 75D with 6 seats but unfortunately both options were still out of my price range. Maybe I should have cancelled my order and waited a few months, however I had already sold my car so the only option left was to proceed with the current purchase.

It sucks and I think I do have a bit of buyers remorse, but I'm soooo suckered in by all the gadgets and the FWD and not having to pay for fuel, I just can't help but still be excited.

Fingers crossed the resale values hold up for a bit longer....

On a side note, wondering where I can go to get those ugly black bits around the wheel arches painted/colour coded.

Cheers

 

[Blue heaven]

You guys seem awfuly calm about the butt reaming that Tesla has just handed existing owners again with this latest, and largest price drop. I'm an early adopter having first bought a P85D Model S 4 years ago and later fitting it with Ludicrous for $$$. I am currently running my 2nd (P100D Model S) and my 3rd Tesla (P100D Model X) as the family daily drivers. We have been totally Tesla EV's for 3 years now with no back up ICE vehicle for family duties.

My Model X P100D was ordered early and was in the 1st shipment to arrive. Every option ticked and it was $320k OTR in Victoria. Today the same car in as close to the same spec as you can now get is $213,259 OTR, A Price PLUNGE of $106,741. From my readings of the thread above I'm not sure you are across the point that Tesla have handed you an instant depreciation of (in my case) $106,741 before you experience the expected depreciation you get with any used vehicle. Lets not forget that Tesla has a habit of offering new "inventory vehicles" and near new "Demo vehicles" at huge discounts off new recommended retail prices. This practice will continue as Tesla needs to shift metal and get those production numbers up and the price point down to where more and more buyers can afford them.

I suspect my fully loaded 2 and a bit year old Model X P100D with 40,000km's probably now has a wholesale value of something in the order of $125,000 given the above price cutting plus normal vehicle depreciation. That's a loss of $195,000 in 2 years and 40,000km's.
I've owned a few very expensive exotic and luxury road cars in my time and this is the biggest depreciation tear up of any of them by far.

Now my Model S P100D was listed as $290k OTR brand new in Victoria when it was purchased circa 18 months ago. The current price of a new car optioned to as close as possible to the same Specification is $192,740 OTR in Victoria. An instant depreciation courtesy of Tesla of $97,260 before the expected depreciation of a used vehicle. Now fortunately I bought this one as a used demo; but it still cost some $30,000 more than the price now for a brand new vehicle. It now has about 20,000km's on it and I reckon it has a true wholeslae value of the same $125,000 of my Model X. So I am looking at a loss of $97,740 on the Model S in 18 months and 20,000km's.

So in just the two P100D's that I currently run the depreciation is a massive $292,740 on fully loaded cars that are between 18mths to 2 years old with average km's. Throw in the loss on my P85D which was largely the expected used car depreciation of circa $90,000 including the extra cost ludicrous conversion and the total Tesla fleet depreciation over 3 cars is $382,740. Remembering that the lions share of
that is directly due to price drops and massive price discounting on inventory and demo vehicles that destroy resale values for existing owners.

Now this situation isn't without precedent in other manufacturers; but they normally compensate existing owners in some fashion. For example, a few years back McLaren introduced the MP4-12C. After 18mths on the market they dropped the new car price by $100,000; but they compensated existing owners by offering them that price discount on trading the existing car in for a new McLaren. A pretty fair arrangement that keeps customers loyal and avoids reputational damage to the brand.
Tesla OTOH do absolutely nothing and I am very surprised how blasé you guys are about it.


I absolutely love the Tesla product and am a big believer; but I have a Model 3 on order which I will now be cancelling. I was also planning on buying the Roadster 2 when it eventually arrives. That won't be happening now either.

For those of you that heavily finance your cars, you are now heavily underwater as the residual finance value will almost certainly massively exceed the market value of your car. Something to consider perhaps?

For a minute there I thought you had no access to clean drinking water, a regular supply of fresh food, a basic education or even the right to vote without having a gun pointed to your head.

 

[ICUDoc]

I'm in a similar boat.
I wanted to trade up to a P100D for next car, but it was going to be too hard to get it past the financial controller.
Now I will probably go for the $170K performance car.

I told ALL of you to stop me trading up to a new P100D, I told ALL of you to tell me to wait for the Roadster. Now, what kind of example are you all setting? How am I to sit on my hands now??

 

[paulp]

No that's incorrect. See my post above - $191k to $151k with same options in 6 months

Well thats very odd, because the two 75D’s I purchased mid last year are now priced around $2000 less with the same specifications.

 

[smithy]

I thought I read somewhere that the new "standard range" has a 100kWh battery but is software locked to a lower capacity, so can be increased to the long range at any time with a further payment. If that's the case then it isn't the same as the 75D. I'll try to find where I read this

 

[Shock-On-T]

I thought I read somewhere that the new "standard range" has a 100kWh battery but is software locked to a lower capacity, so can be increased to the long range at any time with a further payment. If that's the case then it isn't the same as the 75D. I'll try to find where I read this

They've changed it again.
The "standard" was a 100 battery locked to about 92kWh.
They've since changed it again (after a month), and the new "standard" is now about 100kg physically lighter, so people are assuming that means it actually has a smaller battery pack, probably about 80kWh.

 

[PJF000]

You guys seem awfuly calm about the butt reaming that Tesla has just handed existing owners again with this latest, and largest price drop. I'm an early adopter having first bought a P85D Model S 4 years ago and later fitting it with Ludicrous for $$$. I am currently running my 2nd (P100D Model S) and my 3rd Tesla (P100D Model X) as the family daily drivers. We have been totally Tesla EV's for 3 years now with no back up ICE vehicle for family duties.

My Model X P100D was ordered early and was in the 1st shipment to arrive. Every option ticked and it was $320k OTR in Victoria. Today the same car in as close to the same spec as you can now get is $213,259 OTR, A Price PLUNGE of $106,741. From my readings of the thread above I'm not sure you are across the point that Tesla have handed you an instant depreciation of (in my case) $106,741 before you experience the expected depreciation you get with any used vehicle. Lets not forget that Tesla has a habit of offering new "inventory vehicles" and near new "Demo vehicles" at huge discounts off new recommended retail prices. This practice will continue as Tesla needs to shift metal and get those production numbers up and the price point down to where more and more buyers can afford them.

I suspect my fully loaded 2 and a bit year old Model X P100D with 40,000km's probably now has a wholesale value of something in the order of $125,000 given the above price cutting plus normal vehicle depreciation. That's a loss of $195,000 in 2 years and 40,000km's.
I've owned a few very expensive exotic and luxury road cars in my time and this is the biggest depreciation tear up of any of them by far.

Now my Model S P100D was listed as $290k OTR brand new in Victoria when it was purchased circa 18 months ago. The current price of a new car optioned to as close as possible to the same Specification is $192,740 OTR in Victoria. An instant depreciation courtesy of Tesla of $97,260 before the expected depreciation of a used vehicle. Now fortunately I bought this one as a used demo; but it still cost some $30,000 more than the price now for a brand new vehicle. It now has about 20,000km's on it and I reckon it has a true wholeslae value of the same $125,000 of my Model X. So I am looking at a loss of $97,740 on the Model S in 18 months and 20,000km's.

So in just the two P100D's that I currently run the depreciation is a massive $292,740 on fully loaded cars that are between 18mths to 2 years old with average km's. Throw in the loss on my P85D which was largely the expected used car depreciation of circa $90,000 including the extra cost ludicrous conversion and the total Tesla fleet depreciation over 3 cars is $382,740. Remembering that the lions share of
that is directly due to price drops and massive price discounting on inventory and demo vehicles that destroy resale values for existing owners.

Now this situation isn't without precedent in other manufacturers; but they normally compensate existing owners in some fashion. For example, a few years back McLaren introduced the MP4-12C. After 18mths on the market they dropped the new car price by $100,000; but they compensated existing owners by offering them that price discount on trading the existing car in for a new McLaren. A pretty fair arrangement that keeps customers loyal and avoids reputational damage to the brand.
Tesla OTOH do absolutely nothing and I am very surprised how blasé you guys are about it.


I absolutely love the Tesla product and am a big believer; but I have a Model 3 on order which I will now be cancelling. I was also planning on buying the Roadster 2 when it eventually arrives. That won't be happening now either.

For those of you that heavily finance your cars, you are now heavily underwater as the residual finance value will almost certainly massively exceed the market value of your car. Something to consider perhaps?

All of the above is true or thereabouts.

For $200k at the time 3 years ago, I thought the experience would be worth the $$ regardless of what the future held.
I "knew", that like an iphone, the depreciation was likely to be faster than an ice (every 3 years halve the price) and at that time TSLA was $140. To limit my exposure, I did not buy TSLA, bought an 8 year service contract (because I am not selling for at least 8 years) and took the punt that Tesla would still be around in the years to come.
If I didn't have the available cash or it downgraded my lifestyle, I never would have done it.
3+ years later, I don't rally care what it is valued at. I am not selling and I am not tempted to buy a new one - the advanced tech is not, imo, worth the changeover. If a new Tesla flies, or becomes legal at level 5 autonomy, I may be tempted but I would rather save my pennies for a commercial flight on a Space-X rocket (or Virgin Galactic). To do so, would make a Roadster look cheap and there is no re-sale on the flight - but money only gives you options, not much else once you have satisfied Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
I have 2 model 3's reserved.

 

[bena]

Our fully-optioned Model X P100D was purchased in June 2017 for $334K. A new equivalent today is $208K.

Sure it's $126K less, but most people buy Teslas as a means of transport favored for individual reasons (such as enjoyment, performance, features, environment etc), as opposed to thinking of them as an "asset". Our assets are concentrated in brokerage accounts, not things that require concentration as you drive the kids around. We had our last car for 14 years and find if you treat them well, they'll treat you well, and it doesn't really matter what the original cost was.

The positives of this price drop for me are:

* A much wider audience of people can now afford them and enjoy the very different ownership experience vs ICE
* Being less "elite" means fewer people will maliciously damage them or complain about "avoided" fuel taxes etc
* It's cheaper for us to replace them as they age
* It'll become cheaper to insure (as more will get written off than suffer ridiculous repair bills)

 

[100KWH]

Our fully-optioned Model X P100D was purchased in June 2017 for $334K. A new equivalent today is $208K.

Sure it's $126K less, but most people buy Teslas as a means of transport favored for individual reasons (such as enjoyment, performance, features, environment etc), as opposed to thinking of them as an "asset". Our assets are concentrated in brokerage accounts, not things that require concentration as you drive the kids around. We had our last car for 14 years and find if you treat them well, they'll treat you well, and it doesn't really matter what the original cost was.

The positives of this price drop for me are:

* A much wider audience of people can now afford them and enjoy the very different ownership experience vs ICE
* Being less "elite" means fewer people will maliciously damage them or complain about "avoided" fuel taxes etc
* It's cheaper for us to replace them as they age
* It'll become cheaper to insure (as more will get written off than suffer ridiculous repair bills)

I wasn't able to option a MX beyond 290k (back in Nov 2017; Feb 2018 delivery), are you including all the OTR costs (insurance, etc.) as opposed to the drive-away cost?

 

[bena]

I wasn't able to option a MX beyond 290k (back in Nov 2017; Feb 2018 delivery), are you including all the OTR costs (insurance, etc.) as opposed to the drive-away cost?

No, the drive away cost.

I just checked the invoice and it was $331,203.30 including a $1,540 referral credit. When I said $334K I had included $3,765.00 for a 4 year service plan. So the total paid before delivery was $334,968.30. I subsequently bought lock nuts and some boot liners too.

 

[100KWH]

No, the drive away cost.

I just checked the invoice and it was $331,203.30 including a $1,540 referral credit. When I said $334K I had included $3,765.00 for a 4 year service plan. So the total paid before delivery was $334,968.30. I subsequently bought lock nuts and some boot liners too.

Interesting! I wasn't able to configure an MX to over 300k with everything included. The accessories would only add an extra grand or two. I'm Sydney too so curious...

And I thought my 96k drop was bad, yours is close to 130k. Yikes.

 

[Sluggabed]

This won't be the last time you see price adjustments like this. As this Tech moves forward at a every increasing rate with ever increasing competition it will definitely continue. If not, Tesla will be kneecapped.
We were never going to make money out of cars unless you've bought shares or a super rare collector.

 

[paulp]

Interesting! I wasn't able to configure an MX to over 300k with everything included. The accessories would only add an extra grand or two. I'm Sydney too so curious...

And I thought my 96k drop was bad, yours is close to 130k. Yikes.

Probably the status of the dollar conversion rate

 

[Munka]

So in just the two P100D's that I currently run the depreciation is a massive $292,740 on fully loaded cars that are between 18mths to 2 years old with average km's. Throw in the loss on my P85D which was largely the expected used car depreciation of circa $90,000 including the extra cost ludicrous conversion and the total Tesla fleet depreciation over 3 cars is $382,740. Remembering that the lions share of
that is directly due to price drops and massive price discounting on inventory and demo vehicles that destroy resale values for existing owners.

I just bought one of those ex demo discounts you are complaining about. It was a one off for me, I doubted I'd ever spend so much on a car again before the cut and this has solidified my position. But I think you are still being a little unfair on Tesla for this. You need to be a little harsher on our government.

When Tesla cut a price by USD$22,000 our progressive tax rates on cars mean that the full impact of all taxes comes off at the top progressive rate, so 33% LCT, 10% GST and upwards of 8% stamp duty, all compounding to give a whooping 58% or turning that US$22k into US$35k or AU$50k. By the time you sell a 4 year old P85D it will have value similar to a car much further down that artificial curve and that is not Tesla's fault.

As a comparison, you wouldn't be mad at Tesla if the government abolished LCT on EVs tomorrow dramatically sinking the cost of a new Tesla. You'd still be mad though.

What I am annoyed at Tesla is changing the value proposition between AU and USA, to say that Ludicrous mode is free here but worth US$15 k over there has given us Australian PXXXD owners a much harder slap than usual. I think though that in time the cost of a Tesla in Australia will return to cost of a Tesla in USA + Shipping + Tax as it has been for a while now, so while its a sting now I think the next price drop will remove the disparity between the two countries and its not a long term plan to have USA subsidise our cars.

 

[Brissienew]

It sure is a big hit if you had paid over 250k for one before the price cut. Personally, I always thought the more powerful models were grossly overpriced, exaggerated significantly by that terrible LCT. No way a car with bigger motors and battery alone is worth 2 to 3 times the price of a base model. An M5 or an AMG E 63 is much more than just a more powerful 520 or E200. A P100D is just a more powerful S60, with a bigger ‘fuel tank’.

 

[360C]

For a minute there I thought you had no access to clean drinking water, a regular supply of fresh food, a basic education or even the right to vote without having a gun pointed to your head.

Congratulations, I think that is easily the top contender for the most banal and irrelevant comment I've ever read on any of the many internet forums I frequent. Well done

 

[360C]

Sure it sucks but the same thing could have happened if Tesla held the USD price and the AUD went back up from 70 cents to a dollar.

At the end of the day you've gotten to drive two of the fastest production cars ever made. The cars are still as good today as they were last week.

I think it's a shame to go off Tesla completely simply because they've made their cars more accessible. Where else are you going to get Roadster performance for the price?

As I said, I love the product and neither my wife or I would contemplate going back to an ICE vehicle for daily transport. Having said that, people expect price stability in a new car price and manufacturers and importers use currency hedging to achieve this as much as possible.
Tesla OTOH raise and lower their pricing all over the place with little logic and no notification in my personal experience. This does not build brand loyalty in the consumer.

I love cars generally, and have had a lot of them over the last 30yrs or so. As a result I'm fully acquainted with the usually expected depreciation experience in buying new cars. My problem with Tesla is that these massive new car price drops make the depreciation curve FAR worse than a buyer could reasonably predict or expect.

As for Tesla performance and the P100D's being the fastest production cars ever made, true to a point; but to be fair that is only the case when you use the 1/4 mile drag strip as the performance benchmark. It all comes unstuck pretty quickly if you venture much further than that straight line 1/4 mile distance or try and punt a P100D up and down a twisty mountain pass against a traditional ICE exotic car.
The real value of Tesla P100D performance in my view is that instant punch of 1000Nm or so of torque that allows you to slot into gaps in the traffic that no other ICE car could ever manage, or dramatically shorten overtaking distances making passing safer.

As I said, still love the product immensely; but I'm not in love with the pricing instability, to the point where I won't buy another.

 

[360C]

I'm in the same boat as you (also Model S P85DL), but I look at it this way:

I've had the absolute pleasure of driving an extraordinary vehicle for 4 years which I paid $200K for. The grin remains ear-to-ear every time I drive it.

A Model S P100DL was more than $300,000 last time I looked, making the "wife acceptance factor" for the trade-up an insurmountable hurdle.

Now that a brand new one is $170,000....soooo tempting.

As for the depreciation - we bought a computer on wheels. That $1,000 graphics card you bought 4 years ago - you're lucky if you get $50 for it now. Now THAT's depreciation.

All new luxury cars these days, ICE or EV are computers on wheels. Buyers expect pricing stability on the new car price, comparing a car to a straight out computer component isn't valid IMHO.

 

[360C]

To be fair, the price on non ‘P’ models has minimally dropped. Making a tesla go from 0-100 in 1.2 seconds less time is something that has minimal cost to tesla, so charging $100k (a lot of that is tax) more for it was never a good value proposition for owners. Indeed I’ve never understood why someone would pay that much for the thrill of showing off to a few friends for something that was clearly never going to depreciate well, as it was mostly tax.

I'm long past any inclination to show off to impress anybody, friends included. I think I've used the full "I want my Mommy" Ludicrous mode once in my Model S P100D to see what it was like and as far as I can recall I've never even bothered in my Model X P100D.
As I said in a previous post, the attraction to me of a P100D is that instant punch of torque that makes real world driving in traffic faster, safer and easier.

I don't think you can bring tax into it either, the 33% LCT is a known quantity. Tesla have chosen to concentrate the price drop on the P cars that have the highest margins. In other words shaft the punters who have backed them the most of all and ease the burden for the volume sales models.

 

[360C]

@360C I'm quite torn on this but I think I'm leaning more towards your camp. Paid $274k for my P100D outright (thank god I didn't finance...) and almost exactly one year later the same car (albeit no longer available in Obsidian Black/Cream Interior) is $178k, a near $100k drop.

On the one hand, there's the argument that the buyer pays $X at time of purchase and thus the buyer explicitly accepts the price as being sufficiently reasonable such that they splashed the cash and bought the car.

On the other hand, there's no waving away that primal knee-jerk reaction to a 100k price drop in just one year. I can only imagine how much more annoyed I would be if I bought the same car just two weeks ago. I would almost definitely return it and ask for a difference (not sure how successful that'd be). There is also the fact that new buyers buy the same car for much cheaper, which makes me feel like I've stretched (almost unecessarily) much further.

If I had driven my tesla for 4+ years, I probably wouldn't mind the 25k/year annualised depreciation (though that's still obviously an outlier).

In saying all this, I'll probably still get a Roadster depending on the price. As per my first point - if I think it's a price worth paying (just like how you bought two P-models at previous prices and must've concluded it'd be worth it then) then I'll still splash down.

As I said in other replies, buyers expect new car pricing stability and the normal depreciation experience is expected when you buy a new car. If a car loses $25k a year in expected and entirely predictable depreciation then fair enough, you know that buying in. The problem arises when a manufacturer drops the new car price on the same model by $100k, you are then taking an instant and unexpected $100k depreciation hit on top of that normal $25k a year expected depreciation. That doesn't inspire buyer confidence or instil buyer loyalty and I won't buy a Roadster 2 when I can't expect new car pricing stability. That is just just economic insanity.