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Audi’s 310-Mile Pure Electric SUV Scheduled For Early 2018 Launch
- Thread starter scottf200
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
Johan de Nysschen. That is the guy who cancels all EV plans. Did it when he was in Audi, then in Infiniti - then in Cadillac.
I don't think Audi expects to sell many R8 e-trons, but you have to start somewhere. The 500 km MX competitor range is a nice round number that just confirms how far out the vehicle is.
I think a lot of publications fail to appreciate how far ahead Tesla is on multiple fronts, not just ev technology. They also tend to be dismissive of how aggressively Tesla has worked to catch up on luxury features the initial MS lacked. There seems to be a lot more press at the moment about how Audi is coming after the MX than about how in that same timeframe Tesla will be coming after the A4.
I think a lot of publications fail to appreciate how far ahead Tesla is on multiple fronts, not just ev technology. They also tend to be dismissive of how aggressively Tesla has worked to catch up on luxury features the initial MS lacked. There seems to be a lot more press at the moment about how Audi is coming after the MX than about how in that same timeframe Tesla will be coming after the A4.
It seems to me that reality holds manufacturers back. Despite our enthusiasm we are all early adopters. EV's, even in the luxury sedan segment dominated by Model S, are a very small portion of the market and mostly cannot provide the financial payback that advanced ICE can. We can can argue chicken and egg as much as we want to. The Superchargers make cross-country a practical affair for those of us who can use them, BUT, we can hardly argue seriously that these vehicles are a rational choice for us today. I desperately want them to be. I want as many manufacturers jumping in as possible. I hope others will build charging infrastructure too, and make them compatible with tesla Superchargers so there can be reciprocal "drink as much as you want" pricing models.
Ford, to name one, has just decided to share their patents free. That cane important because they've done a ton of research even though their current offerings are meager.
A historical note: Back in the 1900's the problem was infrastructure also. ICE won over alternatives because people like Henry Ford, John Rockefeller and Harvey Firestone joined forces tactically to provide different elements of infrastructure and technological advances. There were many more globally and none of the three were really first at anything in particular. Today we're in a similar spot. Nobody can do it alone. As we all probably learned, similar debates and challenges regarding electrification were resolved with global dependence on AC but mountains of incompatible frequencies and connections, so adapters and transformers are ubiquitous.
back to Audi. VW is the biggest force in automotive Europe, no question about that. When they move strongly to offer competitive product others, like Bosch (known for autonomous steering and hybrid, but they will be a major EV player when they see scale) and Siemens, possibly the most advanced traditional automotive EV drivetrain supplier Press Releases - Siemens Global Website[]=I&content[]=CC&content[]=Corp&content[]=PD As the link shows, the market we should be watching is China, the largest car market in the world. Tesla is fighting hard there, and the market is just beginning to establish momentum. Once it does, we'll have economy of scale in nearly all parts of the technology equation.Only charging infrastructure will require quasi-universal standards. Just as Tesla today has different Supercharger plugs in different markets, that will continue.
In the very short term the Audi EV will not be a big competitor for Model X, for sure. However we should expect that the Audi announcement is a very big deal because they now have decided to go beyond the Hybrid high performance Porsches and the odd compliance car, like VW eGolf . About 5-7 years from now I will be astonished if the VW Group, Siemens, BMW and Mercedes Benz do not all become gigantic players. When they do it will benefit all of us.
I thought this announcement was not about anything other than a Musk-like statement of vision and direction. In the meantime we have the Model X.
Ford, to name one, has just decided to share their patents free. That cane important because they've done a ton of research even though their current offerings are meager.
A historical note: Back in the 1900's the problem was infrastructure also. ICE won over alternatives because people like Henry Ford, John Rockefeller and Harvey Firestone joined forces tactically to provide different elements of infrastructure and technological advances. There were many more globally and none of the three were really first at anything in particular. Today we're in a similar spot. Nobody can do it alone. As we all probably learned, similar debates and challenges regarding electrification were resolved with global dependence on AC but mountains of incompatible frequencies and connections, so adapters and transformers are ubiquitous.
back to Audi. VW is the biggest force in automotive Europe, no question about that. When they move strongly to offer competitive product others, like Bosch (known for autonomous steering and hybrid, but they will be a major EV player when they see scale) and Siemens, possibly the most advanced traditional automotive EV drivetrain supplier Press Releases - Siemens Global Website[]=I&content[]=CC&content[]=Corp&content[]=PD As the link shows, the market we should be watching is China, the largest car market in the world. Tesla is fighting hard there, and the market is just beginning to establish momentum. Once it does, we'll have economy of scale in nearly all parts of the technology equation.Only charging infrastructure will require quasi-universal standards. Just as Tesla today has different Supercharger plugs in different markets, that will continue.
In the very short term the Audi EV will not be a big competitor for Model X, for sure. However we should expect that the Audi announcement is a very big deal because they now have decided to go beyond the Hybrid high performance Porsches and the odd compliance car, like VW eGolf . About 5-7 years from now I will be astonished if the VW Group, Siemens, BMW and Mercedes Benz do not all become gigantic players. When they do it will benefit all of us.
I thought this announcement was not about anything other than a Musk-like statement of vision and direction. In the meantime we have the Model X.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Ford has decided to share their irrelevant and about to expire patents for free.
The rest are for a fee. Not free.
Please look at the Ford patent portfolio before you diss it. First, there are more than 1000 patent pending and 650 or so existing ones so they are NOT "about to expire". Second some think their approach to cell balancing is groundbreaking because it is done independently of charging. Since there are at least BMW and Toyota joining in sharing, paid or not, there is a huge amount of intellectual pretty being shared. remember also that hybrid technologies all also use batteries and require battery management, albeit with less extreme cycles than a pure EV. The point is not to suggest anything less wonderful about tesla, but to point out that critical mass is becoming much more likely. That is probably more due to tesla than any other single thing. So, what will Audi SUV actually be like? I don't know but I'll wager it will be quite good. It won't get me to leave Tesla unless it will be spectacular.
I think you misunderstood. Yes, Ford has good patents. No they are not sharing them for free. This is directly from the press release:
To access Ford’s patents and published patent applications, interested parties can contact the company’s technology commercialization and licensing office, or work through AutoHarvest – an automaker collaborative innovation and licensing marketplace. AutoHarvest allows members to showcase capabilities and technologies, then privately connect with fellow inventors to explore technology and business development opportunities of mutual interest. The patents would be available for a fee.
Johann Koeber
Happy Owner
If they want this to come true, Audi better start building 'their' Gigafactory. As long as I see no action in this field, it is hard to believe a competitor for Tesla is in the making.
Everybody is announcing products (see the Mercedes stationary battery announcement) but I have no idea, where all these batteries are to be manufactured.
Everybody is announcing products (see the Mercedes stationary battery announcement) but I have no idea, where all these batteries are to be manufactured.
LG Chem has roughly 6 GWh of cell production on tap... And that count is using the current cell density, not the upcoming chemistries. It is also woefully underutilized. That is one of the reasons behind the skepticism concerning the Gigafactory.
VW/Porsche/Audi/GM/Ford therefore has plenty of cell production available, at least more than they are currently utilizing. The issues right now lie in the battery technology and pricing for the current generation which are the limiting factors. We expect that once the battery technology improves to be near Tesla's current metrics, then they can also make compelling BEV's. That would then soak up the production capacity. Chances are, the various executives need to see that level of success before building their Gigafactory equivalents.
Tesla would never announce a product 3 years before release...
Not like this forum is doing that 24/7
They have a e-Golf, which has like 100miles? So not like they don't have any experience at all.
Apart from that do you really expect Tesla do make any significant improvements to the Mode X in the next 3 years?
Even if ranged improves, people also buy the 70D so it does no seem to be a priority to everyone.
Koreas LG Chem Constructing Chinese EV Battery Plant
[url]http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/47975-LG-Chem-120kWh-battery-packs-for-sale-to-manufacturers-looking-to-exceed-MS-range
[/URL]
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Take your own advise. I have seen at least three that are about to expire within 2 years. Since it takes at least four years from planning to job 1 those patents ARE about to expire. And those that are actually worth something are not free.
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When Tesla announced their first car, people where able to drive in it.
They stated their plan to someday create another one, cheaper and bigger. When they announced it, they were already selling roadsters and people were driving them.
What did audi already delivered? eTron? Really?
You know 'bout that boy crying wolf?
Greatest feat audi could do, was to actually start honestly trying to build a god EV. We have seen enough pics, and heard enough words, we want to drive in a good EV that is not tesla. I'm sure if audi engineers really push, they will produce something they may drive even better than Model S.
What good does those pictures do? I can't drive them. I'd kill for electric A5 with +500km range and some fast charging capability.
Yes, and it does behave very well. I would have bought one were they available in Florida. They chose to make it very well equipped too, which seems a good sales strategy.
6GWh is just to low if you would like to supply a larger quantity of EV cars.
6GWh in 85kWh car gives just 70 000 vehicles.
I belive Tesla is already getting around this amount of battery power from Panasonic to supply their cars and Powerpacks.
To be able to deliver EV in the 100 000 larger battery facilities is needed, and it takes time to build and investors.
Kine is already building EV and battery facilities, and I guess we will get more EV cars from Kina, than others deliver to Kina in just a few years.
You do know thay Audi is just another brand of VW? They share platforms and under the VW brand there is at least the e-Golf and the e-Up...
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