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Audi deal for using superchargers?

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by Rownolds, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. Rownolds

    Rownolds High Mileage Member

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    It's tempting to read too much into this story, but I thought I'd pass it along. A number of items makes sense if Audi is thinking of a deal with Tesla that would allow their E-tron line to use the supercharger network.
    Story link if from GreenCarReports: Audi e-Tron Electric Car To Offer 150-kW Quick Charging Sites

    Some notable quotes: "At a one-day presentation in Madrid of multiple advanced technologies—the carmaker called it Future Performance Day—Audi executive Reinhard Hofmann said it would offer such a network “along with other [carmakers].” "

    "The luxury volume brand of VW Group told reporters on Friday it will offer a DC fast-charging network for buyers of the production version of its Audi e-tron Quattro, which will arrive during 2018.
    The battery-electric five-seat SUV with a 95-kilowatt-hour battery pack"

    150 kW charging? 95 kWh batteries? 80% charge in 30 minutes?
    It all sounds very familiar....
    Anyway, it's all conjecture.
     
  2. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    No, it is very clear VW is talking about a CCS 150 kWh charging network. Not the Supercharger network.

    It has to get Ford,GM,Mercedes,BMW and Fiat Chrysler to agree on a standard,funding, building and running of the network.

    In other words vaporware. They are not even pretending on creating an 800v network for the Porsche Mission E.
     
  3. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    So far Tesla spent aprox $85 million on Superchargers world wide. While this sounds like a lot, it's a small amount for Audi to invest if they want to. I said it before, there is no way any major car brand would send their own customers to a competitor's network. Audi (or any other brand) will tell their customers, 'hey, go to Tesla's network to charge'. It's like telling their clients to go to Mercedes for service.
     
  4. MikeC

    MikeC Active Member

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    If Mercedes was the only company with a service network, that's exactly what they would have to tell them. Though I agree this is just another vaporware announcement form Audi.
     
  5. SebastianR

    SebastianR Member

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    I think this is not the Tesla Supercharger network Audi talks about.

    I think the Supercharger network investment should always be counted as both: the financial investment and the time / efforts / lessons learned on how to get the land, the permits, the local contractors etc. This is a bit more than just saying "spend XX million USD" - especially if you need to touch many different countries (think Europe) as legislation / regulations / building codes differ quite a bit.

    On other car makers using Tesla's network: I don't see that as a problem at all: if you are in the car business (and not in the energy / fuel business), I don't see a problem with that. I also don't see a problem sending your car to somewhere else for service - it is just that normally that part is really lucrative, which is why dealers don't want to do it. There are industries where service providers and manufacturers live in symbiosis and are not the same.
     
  6. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

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    As someone who has assisted the Tesla Supercharger Team in my region, I completely agree. Superchargers are far from a one-size-fits-all proposition. Every site has its own unique challenges. Tesla's investment in the Supercharger network has cost a lot more than just dollars. Tesla has a formidable head start.
     
  7. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    So they have to come up with an agreement between several competing manufacturers, convince SAE to approve a new CCS standard, find someone else to build the stations, and finally build the stations. In 3 years. Good luck.

    Actually, if it's a third party providing the charging stations, presumably interested in making money, Teslas might very well be able to use them, given a CCS adapter. In principle, Audis etc. could provide their own adapter to use the Supercharger stations as well if they paid Tesla, the two standards are very similar as I understand it when it comes to high power DC.
     
  8. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    In the U.S., yes. But EV DC charging on the Germany autobahn is a simpler implementation.
    I assume no private car company will build the long distance chargers in China. Presumably the German long range EVs start to trickle out in 2018, and will work well within Germany and probably a few neighbors.
     
  9. SebastianR

    SebastianR Member

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    How do they say? [Citation needed] - yes, EV charging in Germany can be done but I know of a number of Superchargers that were severely delayed since local power companies didn't want to do the electrical "Abnahme", which was required for switching the charger on. Then there were challenges around construction sites etc. Just check out the TFF Forum Supercharger discussion.

    Again: nothing that can't be resolved. Nothing that can't be dealt with. But never underestimate the time / complexity of massive, distributed construction work that requires significant (electrical) infrastructure. 2018 may be feasible but I don't see it happen yet...
     
  10. tftf

    tftf Member

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    In a word, no, won't happen.

    As others noted: Audi, like virtually all other Western car makers, have long decided on CCS. This standard will see evolutions over the coming years.

    CCS will offer 150 kW soon, this is the next step:

    CharIN e. V. shows next level of EV fast charging

    Coming as soon as cars with bigger batteries become available from members.

    There is even talk of up to 350 kW for a future spec (maybe useful for buses etc., doubt it makes sense for other uses cases considering infrastructure costs, peak power needs vs little time gains. A limit up to 150 kW to maybe 200 kW looks enough for many years to come in passenger cars).
     
  11. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    If a Supercharger site already has a 500kW transformer, then bulking up to get 350kW charging isn't that much of a stretch. Based on costs in CA, $1M for a rapid refueling site is chump change.
     

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