Audi E-Tron GT Versus Tesla Model S: By The Numbers

[Cloxxki]

I can't say I pay that much attention to the numbers.

On my Model S Tesla claimed 240 miles. Did I ever reach that? HAHA

On my Model 3 Tesla claims 310 miles. Will I ever reach 300 miles? HAHA

Real world range is a lot different.

There is also the whole charging infrastructure. As much as I want an Porsche/Audi EV I'm not sure I'll get one in the next 2-4 years because of the lack of a SuperCharging like network. I'm not too impressed with what Electrify America is doing.

I'm also more interested in an SUV.

Why is there so much obsession with EV cars?

Can we get a REAL SUV? I'm sick of these princesses that you have to handle with a delicate touch.

Do note that the Taycan is actually a low car.
No worries though, you'll not be able to take delivery for a while. VW is investing millions into the first chargers until then. And not to cater to one brand of car, but all BEV's. CCS, baby. Tesla in NA may lock itself out, it's not obliged to.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Do note that the Taycan is actually a low car.
No worries though, you'll not be able to take delivery for a while. VW is investing millions into the first chargers until then. And not to cater to one brand of car, but all BEV's. CCS, baby. Tesla in NA may lock itself out, it's not obliged to.

Tesla has CCS in Europe for the Model 3.

In the US they're supposed to have an adapter.

Basically dongles for Cars.

I can't wait for this vehicle.
Bollinger Motors | Bollinger Motors

 

[manitou820]

Isn't the Taycan more of a Model 3 competitor? I recall reading in the past that the Taycan will be smaller than the Panamera, and situated below it in their lineup. Panamera and S are almost identical size. So this E-Tron GT might also be 3-sized (like the i-Pace is). I'll bet pricing will match up closely with M3P.

The Audi e-tron GT is only 5 inches shorter than the Panamera. So assuming it's based on the same platform as the Taycan, both of those cars will be closer to Model S competitors than Model 3 (in terms of size at least).

 

[manitou820]

In my opinion the Audi is stunning. An Audi employee stated (in an interview) this is very close to the production car. Honestly, I think it makes a Model S look a little dated. It shows that Tesla is going to need to refresh the S soon.

Hard to know based on the performance specs if this will be the higher priced model or the only model offered. If it's the only model, it will be very competitive against the 75D and a bit lacking compared to the 100D (especially range). My guess is this will be priced slightly below the Taycan, which based on Porsche's estimates (between a Cayenne and Panamera), this should be in the $70k-$80k range. That is similar to the etron SUV.

I'm just excited to finally see some real EV competition. Competition is good for all of us.

 

[acoste]

Isn't the Taycan more of a Model 3 competitor? I recall reading in the past that the Taycan will be smaller than the Panamera, and situated below it in their lineup. Panamera and S are almost identical size. So this E-Tron GT might also be 3-sized (like the i-Pace is). I'll bet pricing will match up closely with M3P.

Porsche doesn't have any cars in the Model 3 category which is (supposed to be) a $35k car. The more expensive models have larger batteries and one more motor but the rest of the car is the same. The cheapest Porsche is $60k base. I don't expect the Taycan be below $100k.

 

[BulldogsRus]

Porsche doesn't have any cars in the Model 3 category which is (supposed to be) a $35k car. The more expensive models have larger batteries and one more motor but the rest of the car is the same. The cheapest Porsche is $60k base. I don't expect the Taycan be below $100k.

Exactly, I bet they price/position more as a halo car simply because Porsche will most likely offer a more luxurious interior and customer experience. Then once they ramp up they'll go with a lower priced "entry" vehicle in the $70k range. IMHO Tesla is gonna have a harder time selling MXs and MSs north of $90k because that is exactly where Benz, BMW and Audi will also be sitting and will have little problem swaying potential lux EV suitors away. The fact that Amazon is getting involved in the EV arena should also be cause for concern.

 

[tomas]

Same place where in 2010 the long range Sedan was. And same place as this e-tron GT as we write this.
You can't have it both ways, be on a Tesla forum and not believe in exponential growth ;-)

Wait. You were talking about induction charging at taxi stands.

And when you talk about DC fast charging for Audi at the ubiquity of Tesla superchargers... they have not committed to doing that as Tesla did all the way back at Model S launch.

I’m a believer in EV cars and in supporting infrastructure. Just vision without commitment$ does not drive it forward.

That’s my filter for all the wannabes right now.

I’ve owned a VW group EV. In the US, their challenges are dealer network commitment and charging infrastructure in that order. I have no doubt they can make the car. They need to stop showing off concept cars and address these issues.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Wait. You were talking about induction charging at taxi stands.

And when you talk about DC fast charging for Audi at the ubiquity of Tesla superchargers... they have not committed to doing that as Tesla did all the way back at Model S launch.

I’m a believer in EV cars and in supporting infrastructure. Just vision without commitment$ does not drive it forward.

That’s my filter for all the wannabes right now.

I’ve owned a VW group EV. In the US, their challenges are dealer network commitment and charging infrastructure in that order. I have no doubt they can make the car. They need to stop showing off concept cars and address these issues.

That $2B indirect infrastructure spending is quite a commitment, even if they didn't choose to make it.

 

[tomas]

That $2B indirect infrastructure spending is quite a commitment, even if they didn't choose to make it.

Ok, so these things take lead time. Are they out there getting locations, partners, permitting? Will they hit the ground running in 18 months with cars and infrastructure? I keep hearing about these Tesla killer concept cars and nothing about how they are going to implement that network. Do you have that info?

I personally think they really don’t want to spend that penalty money, so will try to avoid, or delay until car margin takes the sting out of it. Which means cars first, charging after.

 

[Cloxxki]

When Tesla messed up production, they slowed down SC expansion to match. Why overwhelm the world in chargers for which there is no use?

 

[brianman]

An Audi employee stated (in an interview) this is very close to the production car. Honestly, I think it makes a
First sentence...
Model S look a little dated. It shows that Tesla is going to need to refresh the S soon.

Ok, so they have one notch done.
Next is: actually be close to producing it.
Followed by: produce it, make it available to customers in all markets, and provide adequate charging support.

The rest...
Until the above happens, any response by Tesla is unnecessary as a smart cross-shopper will recognize that the Audi offering doesn't meet the minimum bar until the above (including "Followed by") is accomplished.

 

[Magellan55]

E-tron likely to be priced lower than equivalent Taycan for sure, but how much lower? Taycan is priced, well like a Porsche. And of course more $$$ for customization and options like nav, leather, keyless entry and other goodies that other luxury cars give you as standard. From piecing together announcements and interviews, the Taycan is supposed to have 3 levels - base, "S", and "Turbo", like all their ICE cars. All priced about $10k below the equivalent model Panamera. Base is RWD, 0-60 ~5.5s, range maybe 200 miles, and let's say $75K. "S" is AWD dual motor, haven't seen the range or 0-60. "turbo" is the one you hear about (except for the price) , 0-60 in 3.5s, range close to 300. Following the Panamera pricing, that would put it at $140K (before options).

I'm betting the E-tron GT that does 0-60 in 3.5s is not the base model, but the "RS" version, and priced accordingly. I guess we'll see in 2021...

 

[onayragu]

The eTron will be at 3.5s in 2021? My Perf Model 3 was already at 3.2s in 2018. And 4.2s for the Model S is already quick.
I would hate a sport looking car being passed by a sedan looking car.
The eTron has a great aggressive design though. That's also what people like in Tesla, a simple design with no arrogance.

 

[ThosEM]

I can't say I pay that much attention to the numbers.

On my Model S Tesla claimed 240 miles. Did I ever reach that? HAHA

On my Model 3 Tesla claims 310 miles. Will I ever reach 300 miles? HAHA

Real world range is a lot different.

Those numbers are quite real for those who care about them.
My model S85 shows 75,000 miles at 296 Wh/mile, which on 75 kWh usable is 253 miles range
My model 3 shows 20,000 miles at 217 Wh/mile, which on 75 kWh usable is 345 miles range
Of course, the hypermilers get far greater range at useless speeds. I usually exceed the speed limit but no more than 10 mph
As they say, Your Mileage May Vary!

 

[Ed Hart]

That $2B indirect infrastructure spending is quite a commitment, even if they didn't choose to make it.

Yep. $2B is a lot of dough....and I tell friends that although it comes due to Dieselgate, and VW may actually gain future market share because they are forced to go electric, we need to simply hold our noses and be grateful that it is finally happening...regardless of the reason.

 

[Ed Hart]

Those numbers are quite real for those who care about them.
My model S85 shows 75,000 miles at 296 Wh/mile, which on 75 kWh usable is 253 miles range
My model 3 shows 20,000 miles at 217 Wh/mile, which on 75 kWh usable is 345 miles range
Of course, the hypermilers get far greater range at useless speeds. I usually exceed the speed limit but no more than 10 mph
As they say, Your Mileage May Vary!

I have a single motor 85, and once did 240 miles...although the pucker factor was rising. I usually don't plan over 200 miles.

 

[Ed Hart]

In my opinion the Audi is stunning. An Audi employee stated (in an interview) this is very close to the production car. Honestly, I think it makes a Model S look a little dated. It shows that Tesla is going to need to refresh the S soon.

Hard to know based on the performance specs if this will be the higher priced model or the only model offered. If it's the only model, it will be very competitive against the 75D and a bit lacking compared to the 100D (especially range). My guess is this will be priced slightly below the Taycan, which based on Porsche's estimates (between a Cayenne and Panamera), this should be in the $70k-$80k range. That is similar to the etron SUV.

I'm just excited to finally see some real EV competition. Competition is good for all of us.

Correct: competition is good! Tesla knows it. I predict we will all see a remarkable upgrade to the Model S and X in the immediate months ahead. The 2170 cell makes this possible.

 

[docherf]

Porsche doesn't have any cars in the Model 3 category which is (supposed to be) a $35k car. The more expensive models have larger batteries and one more motor but the rest of the car is the same. The cheapest Porsche is $60k base. I don't expect the Taycan be below $100k.

Porsche's largest selling vehicle in the US is the Macan, which has a base price of $47,800. Very similar price-wise to the current Model 3.

Porsche's become largely an SUV/sedan company with halo sports cars in the US. Quite a change from when I was younger -only 2-door sports cars then!

Totally agree that the Taycan will be north of $100k. It looks great.

 

[dfwatt]

Just to be clear, it's great to see companies with the serious resume of Audi-Porsche finally get serious about EV tech - competition is good for everyone. And it's also neat that Tesla bends over backwards to praise the competition, but in this instance, they inflate the Audi E Tron GT, and offer a stilted comparison with an entry level S selling for $65K (where there is every reason to believe that any E-tron GT close to what they have pictured here will be priced at $100-120K). It's kind of a bit bizarre when Tesla could be credibly accused of trolling their own products - specifically, here is the weird non-level playing field they set up:

"Now to the fun part — performance. The e-tron GT here has a clear edge. It is said to scoot from 0-to-60 miles per hour in 3.5 seconds and tops out at 149 mph (240 kph). This particular Tesla (base model S), can “only” manage to accelerate to 60 mph in 4.2 seconds and offers a “mere” 140-mph top speed."

It's even weirder that they leave out the comparison with the Tesla Model 3 Performance Version, which has numerous performance and other advantages over the Audi E-tron GT:
1) cheaper than the E-Tron by a lot
2) likely handles better, (it also clearly handles better than the S), as it is much lighter and therefore more nimble than either car
3) accelerates faster (3.2 to 60), with higher top speed, and likely better track performance, now that Track Mode is past beta stage
4) has more interior room
5) better looking styling (although this is subjective).

Does Tesla leave out the Model 3 Performance Comparison because they don't like to admit that, drag race numbers aside, the Model 3 is the better performance sedan? is the M3P+ better than the Audi? I wouldn't trade them even up.

Can little brother be better than big brother? In this case, I think so.

 

[brianman]

I would hate a sport looking car being passed by a sedan looking car.

You mean like what's been happening since 2012?