HAH - apparently Audi deleted their own press report on their blog!! LOL!!!! http://www.greencarreports.com/news...success-deleted-press-release-seems-to-say-so
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Reminds me of this article from 2009 from - you guessed it - Dan Neil, who predicted that the likes of Audi would step in and quickly surpass Tesla:
Audi e-tron: Taking the e-train - Los Angeles Times
It's pretty funny reading it today. 3 years later and all we have are a bunch of canned projects and 80-mile city cars.
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
There is too much internal resistance for the legacy automakers to switch in time. Tesla will have huge market share before they realize what's fully happening.
Adm
Active Member
Don't underestimate the cash that OEM's can throw at this problem. If the CEO's of these companies come to their senses and decide to go full steam ahead, they can catch up really quick. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they have research on the back burner and they're buying an occasional EV to take apart and learn. I'd be shocked if GM didn't do exactly that by now.
It is not the learning they lack, it is enthusiasm.
Every EE knows what makes EV tick, very few of them have the slightest idea how to sell them.
Before Audi makes a good EV they would have to fire all their exhaust-tuners and rumble-lowers that know very well what a good ICE car is and just cannot imagine what a good EV is. They are not an asset anymore, they are liability.
How many big HDD makers are big in SSD market? (N)one?
Every EE knows what makes EV tick, very few of them have the slightest idea how to sell them.
Before Audi makes a good EV they would have to fire all their exhaust-tuners and rumble-lowers that know very well what a good ICE car is and just cannot imagine what a good EV is. They are not an asset anymore, they are liability.
How many big HDD makers are big in SSD market? (N)one?
Adm
Active Member
I believe it's VAG who has set up a lab for plug in technology, but like I said it will require the board room to come to their senses and I don't see that coming all to soon.
Several things must happen here (in order of increasing improbability):
- board decides to go all-in on that EV thingy
- overcome reluctance of dealer networks to sell these cars
- educate customers on advantages of an EV that will be at a disadvantage to the conventional ICE of the same car maker, be it range, price, size, cargo volume, charge time, you name it.
I can just see the internal conversation:
"Frans, I saw our blog post today."
"Yah, Karl, I don't get it. This Tesla company, they get way too much attention, and the Americans are getting all the facts wrong in their media."
"Well, you know, Americans have been getting their facts wrong in the media for a long time. I did have one question for you, though."
"What is that?"
"Why are we blogging about the competition on our website? How does that sell our cars?"
"That point is good. We should delete it straight away, Karl."
<next day>
"Oh no, Frans, the Americans noticed we deleted the blog post, and now that is also news!"
"Should we put it back?"
Babylonfive
Power12
"Yah, make sure we get our facts wrong on both of the interesting statistics in our response post so that we fit in."
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
This is even funnier if you read it while looking at VolkerP's avatar picture right above it, now imagine the accent...
Honestly, if the Audi R8 e-tron gets the same range, Audi can effectively price it below the Tesla even if they make a loss on the car for the sole purpose of putting Tesla out of business.. The entire Volkswagen - Lambo - Audi group is large enough to throw that kind of money down the drain similar to how Fiat "loses $10k for each of the Fiat EV sold".
The R8 is honestly a beautiful car.
EDIT: The R8 e-tron was revived this year via product placement on Iron Man 3. It is also the car "Tong Stark" "drove" to the gala premiere of the movie (he actually switched cars a few miles out and only drove the last few miles to the red carpet in the e-tron).
The R8 is honestly a beautiful car.
EDIT: The R8 e-tron was revived this year via product placement on Iron Man 3. It is also the car "Tong Stark" "drove" to the gala premiere of the movie (he actually switched cars a few miles out and only drove the last few miles to the red carpet in the e-tron).
jeff_adams
Member
First to market principle will make Audi look like copycats. Apple had plenty of imitators, but consumers are brand loyal. Tesla Nation is growing every day and it will be harder to sell other EVs in Tesla's class.
Audi R8 is a low volume car. They only sold 800 in the US in 2012 Audi sets new U.S. sales record of 139,310 vehicles in 2012; December ranks as best month ever
Plus it only seats two - a very different car than the Model S.
Could they sell 10,000 A8/R8s at a loss to put Telsa out of business? Seriously doubt it. At least in the US that would open them up (and Germany) to anti-dumping trade sanctions. I'm guessing that the German gov. and even merc/BMW would be aligned against this as they have much, much, much larger US business interests to protect.
Plus it only seats two - a very different car than the Model S.
Could they sell 10,000 A8/R8s at a loss to put Telsa out of business? Seriously doubt it. At least in the US that would open them up (and Germany) to anti-dumping trade sanctions. I'm guessing that the German gov. and even merc/BMW would be aligned against this as they have much, much, much larger US business interests to protect.
The R8 is more comparable to the Roadster. I looked at buying the R8 instead of the Roadster, it was a pain to find one and the dealer didn't really want to sell it to me.
The car is like a work of art. But the same could be said of the Roadster.
At least Tesla would sell to anyone instead of having dealers who just show off a pretty car to draw customers in.
The car is like a work of art. But the same could be said of the Roadster.
At least Tesla would sell to anyone instead of having dealers who just show off a pretty car to draw customers in.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Fiat is only doing that because they have ZEV credit obligations in California. It'll cost them $5k in penalties per credit that they don't reach, which for the 500e means $15k since it gets 3 credits. So even if they lose $10k, that's better than losing $15k in penalties. Plus they will probably need to sell only a couple hundred per year to meet obligations.
I doubt Audi (or any company really) would throw money down the drain just to get back at Tesla. They would need to subsidize about 10k-20k cars per year to squeeze Tesla out, which can get quite expensive.
Citizen-T
Active Member
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I read a commenter making a similar claim on Japlopnik.
It's a half truth.
Chrysler had a $1.9 billion outstanding loan that will never be paid since it went down with the "old company". And the US government was paid $560 million by Fiat for its 6.6% stake in Chrysler. That leaves $1.3 billion owed to US Taxpayers that will never be paid back.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ys-chrysler-group-now-square-american-taxpay/
http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/21/autos/chrysler_government_exit/index.htm
They are stupid if they draw too much attention to this given the backlash they got from the conservatives in 2011.
yea just saw that too. Chrysler to Tesla: Not So Fast on Payback Claim - TheStreet
more free Tesla advertising!!
more free Tesla advertising!!
bollar
Disgruntled Member
In any event, FIAT owns 58% of Chrysler anyway -- that doesn't sound so "American" to me.
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