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rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
2500 Roadsters over 4 years, 2000 Karmas, and 800 R8s Unless Audi prices the R8e at $50,000 these are the sales numbers we are talking about.
A halo car is the best they could ever do. They might cut into Tesla's sales by promising something like a future sedan but that can only last for so long.
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by Gualberto Ranieri
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Nice they got Canadian loans too?
An Autoweek article today mentioned Chrysler's loan payback, but they were talking about 1983. I did some digging and found out it wasn't a government loan, but rather a government guarantee of a private loan ($1.5 Billion). There were other conditions imposed, one them being unionized employees had to agree to pay cuts. It seems to me this had more in common with an FDIC umbrella than a loan.
jeff_adams
Member
Mush was on Bloomberg TV today and basically said that GenIII will need to have 200 miles of range. I got the impression that number is the minimum they find acceptable in order to build the car. My guess is they will not introduce that vehicle until the tech and cost merge to allow 200 miles before it needs to be charged. That's the magic number and Audi will struggle to sell many e-Trons at less than that.
that's kind of a big deal. If Gen III is 20% lighter what battery pack size would be needed to get 200 miles? 45kW-hr? 40? How much would that pack cost today? How about in 2 years? When would it come together to support $35k base price?
seems to me that it is alot closer than 2017
seems to me that it is alot closer than 2017
No, 45kWh won't be enough for 200 EPA miles with GenIII. Roadster does it with 44kWh (4,5mile/kwh), MS60 needs 58kWh (3,45miles/kWh), MS85 needs 64kWh (3,12miles/kWh).
GenIII will probably weigh around 3800 pounds and have around 15% smaller front cross-section and better aerodynamics (smaller and narower wheels, ...). Roadster weighs 2700 pounds and has about 25% smaller front cross-section and poor aerodynamics. I'd guess GenIII achieves around 4miles / kWh hence it needs at least 50 kWh battery that will also be smaller than MS battery, shorter and narrower because of less wheelbase and width. Height will be similar.
MS85 costs $10k more than MS60 but also includes SC access for $2k. So, 50kWh today cost $16k.
GenIII should be introduced in 2017, 4 years from now. Assuming battery prices drop 8% annually, Gen3's 50kWh battery will cost ~$12.5k.
$35k GenIII will have a chassis of a $22k ICE + electric powertrain + all goodies an EV built from ground up brings to the table (frunk, trunk, superb handling, spaciousness, quietness, ...).
GenIII will probably weigh around 3800 pounds and have around 15% smaller front cross-section and better aerodynamics (smaller and narower wheels, ...). Roadster weighs 2700 pounds and has about 25% smaller front cross-section and poor aerodynamics. I'd guess GenIII achieves around 4miles / kWh hence it needs at least 50 kWh battery that will also be smaller than MS battery, shorter and narrower because of less wheelbase and width. Height will be similar.
MS85 costs $10k more than MS60 but also includes SC access for $2k. So, 50kWh today cost $16k.
GenIII should be introduced in 2017, 4 years from now. Assuming battery prices drop 8% annually, Gen3's 50kWh battery will cost ~$12.5k.
$35k GenIII will have a chassis of a $22k ICE + electric powertrain + all goodies an EV built from ground up brings to the table (frunk, trunk, superb handling, spaciousness, quietness, ...).
dmckinstry
Model X 2019
I'm off topic for the current conversation, except that perhaps the DOE payoff got the stock above my selling target today.
In starting my investment in TSLA, my goal has always been to wait for the stock price to get high enough that it would completely pay for my Model S, and leave me with at least half my number of shares. That happened today. It would have happen last week (or whenever it reached $97), if I'd been a little less greedy. I had my limit at $100. I did the arithmetic and decided a sell of half my shares at $92.40 would pay for the Model S I wanted. That's after taking out money for taxes.
I won't be obsessing nearly as much on this thread now that I've reached that goal.
But in any case, thanks to Elon, Tesla and all its talented and creative people that have produced a car that I've been lusting after for the last three plus years.
And a special thanks to Elon for his brilliance both in getting the car produced, and in his business sense in getting TSLA price to its current state.
Even if the stock drops to $70 I'll have more money in TSLA stock that I originally invested. And I would never sell at that price, unless Elon were to die, or some other disaster for Tesla.
From now on I'm in for the really long haul. I'll only sell as much as needed for minimum distribution for the IRS.
P.S. Thanks for all the insight shown on TMC and this thread.
In starting my investment in TSLA, my goal has always been to wait for the stock price to get high enough that it would completely pay for my Model S, and leave me with at least half my number of shares. That happened today. It would have happen last week (or whenever it reached $97), if I'd been a little less greedy. I had my limit at $100. I did the arithmetic and decided a sell of half my shares at $92.40 would pay for the Model S I wanted. That's after taking out money for taxes.
I won't be obsessing nearly as much on this thread now that I've reached that goal.
But in any case, thanks to Elon, Tesla and all its talented and creative people that have produced a car that I've been lusting after for the last three plus years.
And a special thanks to Elon for his brilliance both in getting the car produced, and in his business sense in getting TSLA price to its current state.
Even if the stock drops to $70 I'll have more money in TSLA stock that I originally invested. And I would never sell at that price, unless Elon were to die, or some other disaster for Tesla.
From now on I'm in for the really long haul. I'll only sell as much as needed for minimum distribution for the IRS.
P.S. Thanks for all the insight shown on TMC and this thread.
dmckinstry
Model X 2019
Boy. I was really off topic. I thought I was in Short-Term TSLA Price Movements.
I guess I was just to excited to notice. Moderator: Feel free to move this elsewhere.
I guess I was just to excited to notice. Moderator: Feel free to move this elsewhere.
jeff_adams
Member
Wow, that Tony Pow guy that commented on the article seems like a complete tool. Guess he's been drinking the Peterson kool-aid.
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EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Aannnddd... Audi killed the R8 Etron. Because the batteries were too expensive. For their $150,000 car. Heh.
All-electric Audi R8 e-tron wont go on sale | Autocar
Towel = thrown.
- "Capable" is an interesting word. To me that suggests some interesting games like "launch control". I'd be interested to see MT/C&D/Edmunds/etc. evaluate whether it truly beats a P85 to 60mph or not.
- Limited to 124.27. Barely beaten by 85, and by > 5mph by P85.
- "Optimal" is an interesting word. 133 is curiously almost exactly half of the EPA (read: not optimal) rating for 85 and P85.
No wonder they were cranky about some sales statistics.
I would have far more respect for them as a company if they would step up and say something like...
Respectable Response said:
Instead they come across as children.
I wonder if Elon chose to beat the Audi A8 specifically in the pack swap demo to further agitate the folks at Audi, says Jalopnik:
"Musk showed that two Model S-es can be battery-swapped in the same amount of time it takes to put gas in a competing Audi A8, which, to be fair, has a massive gas tank at 23.8 gallons."
"Musk showed that two Model S-es can be battery-swapped in the same amount of time it takes to put gas in a competing Audi A8, which, to be fair, has a massive gas tank at 23.8 gallons."
First heads are rolling in the topfloors
Wolfgang Dürheimer fired from Audi, could be related to axing the R8 e-tron - report
Wolfgang Dürheimer fired from Audi, could be related to axing the R8 e-tron - report
It could simply be about where things are going. Audi is a luxury automaker and they are competing with Lexus (hybrids, interest in Tesla), BMW (carbon fiber, plug-ins, hybrids), Mercedes Benz (In bed with Tesla and possible future owner/partner), Cadillac (plug-in hybrids), Infiniti (hybrids, maybe electric one day), Acura (hybrid), Lincoln (hybrids). Audi now effectively has no end product to show for their approach to electrics as the price ended up too high for the end result as Tesla just totally pwned that end of the market with an holistic strategy. Audi might exit or hire someone from another company that has a more effective electrification program.
+1
Didn't actually think about it that way. Though I do think it wouldnt be really hard for Audi to start production with some (semi)-ev. They have quite some experience with prototypes. Plus they probably got a load of money. In addition, I think Tesla is more than willing to produce drivetrains for them. All they have to do is ask (and hand over some money)
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