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Audi - "Musk-have" Ad
- Thread starter malcolm
- Start date
BluestarE3
Active Member
Yes, I saw that earlier today and it seemed like an act of desperation. As if Elon Musk would lust for an Audi EV, especially one that's not slated for production until 2019. And, given Audi's history of promised electric vehicles that didn't quite materialize...
NeverFollow
Active Member
Competition is good news, but same issue than the iPace, Geely, Nevs...
No existing Superchager Network!
No existing Superchager Network!
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Musk-wait. And Musk-wait and Musk-wait.
@NeverFollow
I agree the SpC network is a huge advantage, however at least in EU the CCS networks are ramping up impressively. (43% growth since last year and standing at 3000 in the EU now)
Smaller stall counts, but more locations. So a different approach to the same problem. Generally they are multi-headed with CHAdeMO, so you still can use them with the Tesla adaptor. TBH they are sometimes a god send, certain routes which would require diversions to SpC's are better served with CHAdeMO, especially once you throw tapering effects into the mix. An earlier stop at a middling SOC, is very close between the SpC and CHAdeMO.
While the low bay count sounds problematic, generally speaking they are fairly uncongested at least here in the UK. (It is worth pointing out that we did experience major congestion problems when Ecotricity offered the service for free. That stopped overnight when they introduce fees).
By far and away the best thing about the SpC for me is the user experience. CHAdeMO usage feels klunky, and the mess of providers means you end up with a wallet full of silly RFID cards, and a phone loaded down with buggy apps
Clearly Tesla have the benefit of being able to use both sets of infrastructure, but I still think the other EV's will be workable here.
I am actually interested to see what the taper rates look like on these cars when we start seeing the 150kW CCS chargers rolled out. If we look at all the other NMC cars they don't really taper between 0 and 80% in the same way Tesla's charge rates do. IF (and it's a big one) these large NMC battery cars can pull 100+kW all the way from 0 to 80% SOC then in some ways they will be more flexible. If you just need a partial top up, you have the option of stopping anywhere along the journey rather than trying to match timing to low S.O.C. I can also see how it would be possible for a 100kW headline figure CCS would actually be faster than a 120kW SpC in real world use if tapering comes into play.
Interesting times ahead.
I agree the SpC network is a huge advantage, however at least in EU the CCS networks are ramping up impressively. (43% growth since last year and standing at 3000 in the EU now)
Smaller stall counts, but more locations. So a different approach to the same problem. Generally they are multi-headed with CHAdeMO, so you still can use them with the Tesla adaptor. TBH they are sometimes a god send, certain routes which would require diversions to SpC's are better served with CHAdeMO, especially once you throw tapering effects into the mix. An earlier stop at a middling SOC, is very close between the SpC and CHAdeMO.
While the low bay count sounds problematic, generally speaking they are fairly uncongested at least here in the UK. (It is worth pointing out that we did experience major congestion problems when Ecotricity offered the service for free. That stopped overnight when they introduce fees).
By far and away the best thing about the SpC for me is the user experience. CHAdeMO usage feels klunky, and the mess of providers means you end up with a wallet full of silly RFID cards, and a phone loaded down with buggy apps
Clearly Tesla have the benefit of being able to use both sets of infrastructure, but I still think the other EV's will be workable here.
I am actually interested to see what the taper rates look like on these cars when we start seeing the 150kW CCS chargers rolled out. If we look at all the other NMC cars they don't really taper between 0 and 80% in the same way Tesla's charge rates do. IF (and it's a big one) these large NMC battery cars can pull 100+kW all the way from 0 to 80% SOC then in some ways they will be more flexible. If you just need a partial top up, you have the option of stopping anywhere along the journey rather than trying to match timing to low S.O.C. I can also see how it would be possible for a 100kW headline figure CCS would actually be faster than a 120kW SpC in real world use if tapering comes into play.
Interesting times ahead.
The difference is CCS is no-name, it is not Audi Charge, it goes by X names, Y looks and Z payment systems.
Superchargers are branded by Tesla, all the same wherever you go.
Superchargers are branded by Tesla, all the same wherever you go.
It is posed as a question and reads: Does Musk have an SUV that is this SEXY?
The goal is contending leadership in EVs, with Tesla and Audi gapping the field to fight it out.
Usually mentioning a competitor is bad practice in that you want "there is no substitute" mentality.
In this case, Audi wants the association to create a gap vs everyone else.
This gap is good for both Tesla and Audi.
@Warped one, I don't disagree. For people who are new to EV's, and particularly haven't experienced the paradigm shift towards home charging and are still nervous about running out of battery, Tesla's one stop shop has massive appeal.
For those of us that have ran EV's for a few years, and are prepared to drill into the detail of how charging rates work in practise beyond a headline grabbing high peak kW number, it's less important.
I suspect these cars will sell fairly well to previous EV owners, but find it much harder in winning over ICE users. Not because they can't fulfil the requirement, but because of perceptions. In this way I think the SpC network was a stroke of genius.
You will get zero disagreement from me about the Z different payment systems. It's the suckiest part of EV travel outside the SpC network in my experience (well that and broken/ICE'd chargers, again something Tesla are the gold standard in). This is magnified here in EU as not only are you switching charging providers, you are also switching countries too, with a lot of the providers being relatively small outfits without multi-lingual support desks.
If the CCS crowd can get their act together, introduce a proper set of "roaming" agreements, they will go a long way towards making EV's more acceptable. Given past history, this is going to be a long time coming
TBH Even as Tesla owners / fans we should be pushing this. More charging options is good news for us too. It adds more convenience, and stops Tesla from having to do all the "heavy lifting" of ever more SpC sites and bays.
For those of us that have ran EV's for a few years, and are prepared to drill into the detail of how charging rates work in practise beyond a headline grabbing high peak kW number, it's less important.
I suspect these cars will sell fairly well to previous EV owners, but find it much harder in winning over ICE users. Not because they can't fulfil the requirement, but because of perceptions. In this way I think the SpC network was a stroke of genius.
You will get zero disagreement from me about the Z different payment systems. It's the suckiest part of EV travel outside the SpC network in my experience (well that and broken/ICE'd chargers, again something Tesla are the gold standard in). This is magnified here in EU as not only are you switching charging providers, you are also switching countries too, with a lot of the providers being relatively small outfits without multi-lingual support desks.
If the CCS crowd can get their act together, introduce a proper set of "roaming" agreements, they will go a long way towards making EV's more acceptable. Given past history, this is going to be a long time coming
TBH Even as Tesla owners / fans we should be pushing this. More charging options is good news for us too. It adds more convenience, and stops Tesla from having to do all the "heavy lifting" of ever more SpC sites and bays.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Me too. My sample-size is tiny, I've been fortunate to make do with Superchargers, albeit with short detour sometimes, but the one time I was in a car park, with Type-2 charger available, and it was going to save me a 30 minute detour to Supercharger, the time it took to register, get connected (couldn't do that with APP alone, I got an error ... so had to have manual help to initiate the charge, and again [as a consequence] to disconnect) was more than the 40 minutes it would have taken to Supercharge ... the charge was slow too, although I was parked-up overnight so that didn't matter on that occasion.
@kort677 I agree, but I think it has been a huge advertising boost for not only Tesla but all EVs.
Certainly in the early days pulling up to an SpC at a service station led to curious stares from passing ICE drivers, and no doubt set the seed in their mind that EV's didn't have to be tied inside city limits.
Did they realise that to use those points you had to be driving a Tesla? I think people assume it's like a BP or Shell branded gas station, and any vehicle manufacturer's car can use it.
They have to get into the next buying stage in the sales funnel* going from awareness to interest (or even decision) before they discover the fact that the network is proprietary.
It's easy for us Tesla/EV fans to forget quite where we came from sometimes. We might think now it's blindingly obvious that Tesla SpC's can only be used by Tesla cars, but it's actually counter instinctive given how we've "recharged" our cars historically.
(*For those not aware of what a sales funnel is: What is sales funnel? - Definition from WhatIs.com)
Certainly in the early days pulling up to an SpC at a service station led to curious stares from passing ICE drivers, and no doubt set the seed in their mind that EV's didn't have to be tied inside city limits.
Did they realise that to use those points you had to be driving a Tesla? I think people assume it's like a BP or Shell branded gas station, and any vehicle manufacturer's car can use it.
They have to get into the next buying stage in the sales funnel* going from awareness to interest (or even decision) before they discover the fact that the network is proprietary.
It's easy for us Tesla/EV fans to forget quite where we came from sometimes. We might think now it's blindingly obvious that Tesla SpC's can only be used by Tesla cars, but it's actually counter instinctive given how we've "recharged" our cars historically.
(*For those not aware of what a sales funnel is: What is sales funnel? - Definition from WhatIs.com)
BluestarE3
Active Member
If that is the question being posed by that AUDI ad, the obvious answer is "Hell yes and have had it for over two years!"
But I don't think that is the message of that silly AUDI ad. It's trying to get attention by invoking a Tesla association. Which is pathetic.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
It's pretty clever advertising. Musk is a perfume.
Brits enjoy word-play; I think it is lost on Americans.
Brits enjoy word-play; I think it is lost on Americans.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
To me it shows how concerned Audi is about Tesla cutting into their sales. As they say, every joke has a grain of truth. This one has a whole beach's worth. I read it as Audi really saying "Musk-Compete" than "Musk-Have". This was Tesla's plan all along. Musk is clearly forcing other auto makers to get serious about making long range EVs. So I think he looks at it, smirks, and thinks to himself "the plan is working."
Canuck I still don't think most mainstream manufacturers are serious about EV's, and for one simple reason:
Audi breaks annual U.S. sales record with 210,213 deliveries as SUVs set pace | Audi USA
Look where all the growth has been... all in the least environmentally friendly SUV segment
So while A8's may not be declining Audi are still growing volumes on the back of things like the Q7. Which is remarkable for a brand exposed cheating emission standards to have a record year
To me it just shows how most consumers (i.e. excluding us Tesla / EV fans, who are still in the minority), don't seem to care about the environmental issues, and the likes of Audi are catering to their demands. (A sad reflection on society I know).
If anything this ad should be construed as telling Tesla to hurry up with the Y. Despite all the lazy journos saying all these upcoming cars are X competitors, they aren't. They are aimed squarely at the class the Y will pitch into.
The ICE vs EV battle still has a long way to run. The 3 will of course help, but I think the Y could be even more popular as it's aimed right into the segment seeing the largest growth.
Don't shoot the messenger, I'm simply saying it as I see it.
Audi breaks annual U.S. sales record with 210,213 deliveries as SUVs set pace | Audi USA
Look where all the growth has been... all in the least environmentally friendly SUV segment
So while A8's may not be declining Audi are still growing volumes on the back of things like the Q7. Which is remarkable for a brand exposed cheating emission standards to have a record year
To me it just shows how most consumers (i.e. excluding us Tesla / EV fans, who are still in the minority), don't seem to care about the environmental issues, and the likes of Audi are catering to their demands. (A sad reflection on society I know).
If anything this ad should be construed as telling Tesla to hurry up with the Y. Despite all the lazy journos saying all these upcoming cars are X competitors, they aren't. They are aimed squarely at the class the Y will pitch into.
The ICE vs EV battle still has a long way to run. The 3 will of course help, but I think the Y could be even more popular as it's aimed right into the segment seeing the largest growth.
Don't shoot the messenger, I'm simply saying it as I see it.
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