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Tesla "specifying" the battery chemistry seems to me to be the same as "controlling" the chemistry. What do you think is different between those two words in this context?
I would doubt that Panasonic would have the ability to sell to others w/o tesla saying OK. First, tesla owns the factory; second, tesla is investing much much much more than Panasonic; third, I am sure that these batteries are being built with tesla IP which would be a huge limit to resale. I have no doubt that Panasonic probably asked for this but I also have little doubt that in final contract that they got this right.
the last thing that tesla would do is build a gigafactory that they can't get batteries from
I'm guessing that the agreement between Tesla and Panasonic is that Tesla is obliged to buy all Panasonic battery cells produced at the GF. The cells Tesla does not need in their own cars will be wrapped in Tesla packages and sold to other manufacturers or stationary energy storage to the grid or solar and wind farms.
Regarding cells manufactured by Panasonic at other factories than the GF containing Tesla IP, then they will probably need an OK from Tesla to sell them to others. But for the time being, it looks like Tesla "eats" all the cells Panasonic can deliver, so hardly a relevant issue in the near future...
Zzzz...
Member
This is not how it is usually done. For example under current contract Panasonic had to produce up to predefined volume of li-ion cells if Tesla would like to buy them. But Tesla have zero obligations to buy any volume of cells from Panasonic. Many other similar examples in the industry, a common practice.
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It Tesla would not need volume for whatever reason, because of demand drop or something, the joint venture would be happy to sell cells to any third party. If Tesla require utilisation of 100% of installed capacity - JV would not sell cells to anyone but Tesla.
Specs = size, shape, features, choosing a chemistry with a good compromise in performance, longevity and price.
Battery chemistry = a science that is developed and patented by some large companies and universities. Tesla is not into this research as far as i know, and have nothing to add there. Elon talks about EVs being a "Forcing Function" for this development.
Panasonic knows a lot about batteries and they agree on a suitable battery cell for the car. Tesla is not telling panasonic what the battery chemistry of choice should be constituted of, how to make it or anything like that, because they dont have that knowledge. They specify a battery, just like i specify to the clerk what i want in my ice cream cone. I dont tell him how to make the ice cream, and Tesla dont tell panasonic how to make the battery.
You are just plain wrong. They started with something like that when they speced original Roadster.
Cells in Model S have heavily modified chemistry, 'automotive grade'. Panasonic built no such cells before Tesla came knocking.
I am prepared to bet my money tesla has more inhouse knowledge of how to make cells suitable for cars than panasonic. One makes cars, the second makes everything.
From the article: "Currently in the formative stages of development at Porsche’s Weissach R&D centre in Germany, the secret five-door is planned to form part of a new dedicated fifth model range set to slot into the German car maker’s line-up beneath the Panamera..."
I am glad to read reports that Porsche may be waking up to the EV revolution, but I think the key word there is "formative". I suspect Porsche is several years away from launching that EV. Looking forward, by then Tesla will be even farther ahead of everyone in driving down the cost of batteries, refining their drivetrain, and their Supercharger network will be everywhere. Will Porsche have a long distance high speed charging network? I doubt it. Will Porsche be able to source batteries at a cost comparable to the Gigafactory? Highly unlikely.
Porsche is scrambling to catch up to Tesla.As a former Porsche owner I wish them luck. They'll need it.
I am glad to read reports that Porsche may be waking up to the EV revolution, but I think the key word there is "formative". I suspect Porsche is several years away from launching that EV. Looking forward, by then Tesla will be even farther ahead of everyone in driving down the cost of batteries, refining their drivetrain, and their Supercharger network will be everywhere. Will Porsche have a long distance high speed charging network? I doubt it. Will Porsche be able to source batteries at a cost comparable to the Gigafactory? Highly unlikely.
Porsche is scrambling to catch up to Tesla.As a former Porsche owner I wish them luck. They'll need it.
It's in the "formative stages". And it's slotted to be "beneath the Panamera". So, a ways off at best and if it's going to be a lesser sibling of the Panamera, then performance would be questionable compared to the Model S.
We'll see. That article didn't describe a particular impressive car other than it actually had a good range.
MartinAustin
Active Member
Very scrappy evidence there... Inside EVs citing Autocar citing unnamed German media reports? Not worth bothering with. All companies are saying they have Tesla fighters, or Teslas for the masses, etc. etc.. Ford says they're #2 in electric cars right now. Not sure where the Leaf and the Model S fall into that list >< Everyone just wants to be in the news. Including an electric motor in your car doesn't mean you are an alternative to a Tesla Model S. A Tesla Model S has all these - seating for 5 or 7, approx. 60 cu.ft. of storage space, 300-mile range, 0-60 in 3.2, charge from empty in 1hr15min at Superchargers. Let's see how many of those the "Pajun" has. Honestly I am very worried about the looks of it, if it is derived from the Panamera.
I really, truly do hope that other manufacturers get serious about producing competitors for Tesla's cars. Smaller than the Panamera would be fine with me, I don't need a full sized car anyway. Fingers crossed that this car gets its 250 mile range from a large battery pack, rather than from a small battery pack and an ICE "range extender."
They'll be rivalling the Model S around the time Model 3 rolls out? I suppose there's always those who want an EV from an established maker and/or have brand loyalty though.
Quite a few of us have been saying that the major manufacturers are about 5 years behind Tesla. The Model S came out in 2012 and this will come out in 2017 (maybe). Good luck to Audi. I hope it is a good car. I'd pretty much guarantee it won't be as good as a Tesla but it will still be another EV on the road. If Tesla upgrades the Model S pack with the Model III batteries then the Model S will have a 350 mile range around the same time frame.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Would like to see Audi's answer to Tesla's rapidly-expanding Supercharger network as well. That's Tesla's trump card for the foreseeable future.
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