Audi, Porsche and Mercedes preparing a rival for Tesla

[Auzie]

The Germans have brought the internal combustion drive train to a fine art, and it's tough for anybody to contemplate the eventual decline of something that you've invested so much into.

I am a great admirer of German engineering and find their cars second to none, until Tesla came along.

All great things eventually come to an end. The ending of ice cars era does not diminish the achievements during that era. These achievements helped to serve a good purpose for a very long time.

From an engineering perspective, the electric drive-train IS boring. It's dirt simple, and there's not much meat for thousands of very bright and imaginative engineers to chew on. After a few years of refinement, the electric drive train will become an inexpensive and 100% reliable commodity.

I hope that all mighty brain power that has been focusing on internal combustion engine improvements switches the focus on battery or energy storage improvements and car control system improvements.

We still need German engineering, even if we may not need internal combustion engines.

 

[Johan]

I am a great admirer of German engineering and find their cars second to none, until Tesla came along.

All great things eventually come to an end. The ending of ice cars era does not diminish the achievements during that era. These achievements helped to serve a good purpose for a very long time.



I hope that all mighty brain power that has been focusing on internal combustion engine improvements switches the focus on battery or energy storage improvements and car control system improvements.

We still need German engineering, even if we may not need internal combustion engines.

I believe the greatest future developments with regards to cars will come in the form of driver assistance, autonomous driving and augmented reality features (IR camera HUD overlay, navigation HUD overlay) and other "smart car features". Unfortunately the same great engineers who have near perfected the internal combustion engine probably don't have the skillset and inclination to do that kind of work.

So for the Germans it will be hard: sort of like coming to terms with amputating a fully functioning limb because a small but very malignant bone tumor has been found and the doctors more or less know this sarcoma will kill you in a few years if you don't amputate now.

 

[Auzie]

I believe the greatest future developments with regards to cars will come in the form of driver assistance, autonomous driving and augmented reality features (IR camera HUD overlay, navigation HUD overlay) and other "smart car features". Unfortunately the same great engineers who have near perfected the internal combustion engine probably don't have the skillset and inclination to do that kind of work.

These great engineers can plan for prosperous retirement, but their children can develop different skill set, as required.

So for the Germans it will be hard: sort of like coming to terms with amputating a fully functioning limb because a small but very malignant bone tumor has been found and the doctors more or less know this sarcoma will kill you in a few years if you don't amputate now.

That is too graphic. Patient is very resilient, resourceful and can take care of its health. Doctor can help by providing very healthy environment for healing.

Macroeconomic situation and slow recovery in Europe is not encouraging at the moment. German government needs to lead EU towards healthier macroeconomic environment, to provide some strength which might be needed to counterbalance weaknesses.

The timing of the beginning of the end of the auto industry as it is now, will be critical. If the decline starts in poor macroeconomic conditions, then your description may be fitting.

 

[Jaff]

Noise is a form of pollution too, right?

BMW already fakes the engine sound in its M3 and M5, using the sound system to augment the driver's experience. Modern ICEs are getting so efficient that they don't make "enough" noise. Sheesh.

Thought experiment: if Tesla offered fake engine sounds as a switchable option in the Model S, what fraction of owners would turn it on?

 

[Takumi]

Noise is a form of pollution too, right?

Presented by...

Muting the Freeway — re:form — Medium

 

[hileyms]

Worldcarfans web site has a report that 'Porsche has announced they are not working on a model to compete head to head with Tesla's Model S'

Talking to Autocar, Hatz said "until the technology offers a solution to those problems [short range, long charging times], we will not be looking at launching such a car." He went on to specify that Porsche is leading the way as far as plug-in hybrid technology is concerned and their plans are to focus on such systems as the customer feedback has so far been positive.

Well he would say that they are leading in plug-in hybrid.

 

[Grendal]

Worldcarfans web site has a report that 'Porsche has announced they are not working on a model to compete head to head with Tesla's Model S'

Talking to Autocar, Hatz said "until the technology offers a solution to those problems [short range, long charging times], we will not be looking at launching such a car." He went on to specify that Porsche is leading the way as far as plug-in hybrid technology is concerned and their plans are to focus on such systems as the customer feedback has so far been positive.

Well he would say that they are leading in plug-in hybrid.

The European car makers are all going the plug-in hybrid route for their cars. It makes sense for them too. They don't have to build a battery factory, step away from the tech they understand, it still allows enough EV driving to move around in a city which covers the European laws that are coming through, and it gives the illusion that they are being green.

 

[Robert.Boston]

The European car makers are all going the plug-in hybrid route for their cars. It makes sense for them too. They don't have to build a battery factory, step away from the tech they understand, it still allows enough EV driving to move around in a city which covers the European laws that are coming through, and it gives the illusion that they are being green.

In some fairness, hybrids really can achieve much better fuel economy. "Can" is a key word there, though, because the manufacturer can also design hybrids to boost performance but leave fuel consumption essentially unchanged. As an EV enthusiast, I'm in favor of any plug-in option. As we've seen with many Volt drivers, once you get comfortable with electric-only performance and charging, you begin wondering why you're lugging around the gasoline engine.

 

[Tharo]

Audi confirms, before 2018 it will release 2 vehicles 100% electric, which will be a SUV with battery on the floor, allwheeldrive and a range of over 500km, and the other car would be a sportcar.

Here article in a german Newspaper (in german): Audi sagt Tesla den Kampf an und baut Elektro-Autos

Here translate with Google translate:


Audi wants Tesla no longer left to the market for high-reach electric cars. For this, the subsidiary of the Volkswagen Group increased its investment plan to clear.

"By 2018, we want to bring two purely electrically powered production cars on the market. On the one hand a sports car, the other a Sports Activity Vehicle (SAV), ie, a sport utility vehicle, "the Chairman Rupert Stadler announced in an interview with this newspaper. "Four-wheel driven and battery cells in the bottom of the SAV will have a range of over 500 kilometers."

Electric cars with 150 km range "in the market will have a limited success for Stadler, the electric cars have to say on the long haul. 400 to 450 kilometers duty. "Stadler compared to a marathon can be understood as a dig at rival BMW. Meanwhile i3 electric car electric drive alone no more than 150 kilometers.

Future technologies such as electrification are not the only issue, plans to invest in the Audi. The digitization drove around the driving or upgrading the virtual dealer with showrooms and three-dimensional screens cost money.

Originally EUR 22 billion were provided by 2018 at the Audi investment plan. "By 2019, we now grab two billion euros on top of it," says Stadler. Audi wants to expand the model range from 50 to 60 cars in 2020. In addition, flow 1 billion euros in the new plant in Mexico. In the Italian subsidiary brands Lamborghini and Ducati as well as in the design center Italdesign Giugiaro will flow again for 1 billion euros.

 

[Doug_G]

Well, great. Let's hope they actually do it.

 

[Model 3]

Audi confirms, before 2018 it will release 2 vehicles 100% electric, ...

This has been confirmed earlier, then they "confirmed" it was PHEV, then BEV, and then again PHEV and now again BEV... I think we find out in 2018

 

[Merrill]

Just received my Automobile magazine for February and on the cover it says "Target Tesla" and when you read the article it says Model X either a 60 or 85kWh battery deliveries start early 2016. Then they go on to say the Model 3 entry level with a 200 mile range an a 48kWh battery due in 2017. They talk about top secret EV's and plug in hybrids from Audi, Porsche, Mercedes and BMW, looks like Elon is getting what he wants.

 

[bluenation]

one thing i've learned in life - and includes definitely for car companies: actions speak louder than words.

i apply that to tesla. and now i apply that to these germans. show us the EVs, dont just talk about them.

 

[Franko30]

@ bluenation:
As a German I say you're right! Especially since Audi really is only leader in announcements and even if they and the other German carmakers might actually produce something in 2018-20 that has the range of a 2012 Model S, they still don't have a fast charging network...

There's a discussion about this going on here:

Target Tesla: How Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Porsche Plan to Shock Tesla

Cheers

Frank

 

[AnxietyRanger]

As someone who basically dumped a life-long relationship with German premium automobiles to go Tesla - from the car, to the cap on my head, to the beat in my heart - I can sympathize with this thread.

Audi isn't even trying and Mercedes feels compliance thus far, BMW is the only one of the trio that at least has a visible effort, but then, that visible effort basically is the BMW i3 and I think that's 'nuff said.

I'm holding onto my Model X reservation. What Tesla has in the Model S and expectedly Model X is nothing short of revolutionary and the longer the Germans take to admit that, the longer I'm growing roots elsewhere.

We have no time to live in the past, yet that's exactly where the German car makers are. The future is already here and it isn't looking very German, aside from windscreen washer stalks. Maybe that's what they can specialize in.

 

[Duckjybe]

Not sure if this is new or has been posted but Audi is apparently partnering with Sunpower on solar charging systems and future storage systems for Audi's electric vehicles. http://solar.sunpowercorp.com/audi

Audi of America has partnered with SunPower to deliver the new Audi energy program. Through this innovative sustainable energy program, Audi customers have the opportunity to reduce their annual household electricity costs with a high performance SunPower solar system. For owners of an Audi electric vehicle, the SunPower system will supply power for the vehicle as well as their home.

As part of Audi energy, SunPower is also offering Audi customers – the first of SunPower's automotive partners – premier access to its energy storage solution for a limited time, once it becomes commercially available.

Learn more about the special offer for all Audi customers by signing up today for a free, no-obligation consultation with a SunPower solar advisor.