Audi Q6 e-tron EV

[Valore]

One other feature I really like (particularly in big cars): 360 degree camera view. Apparently it's even the fancy version that gives you an external view of your own car (see e.g. here). Also, having Alexa in the car should be pretty cool (depending on how well it's integrated).

I have this in my Mercedes but the "fancy version" is a gimmick in my opinion. My Mercedes got this too, but I don't use it.
The 360° view from above which looks like a drone hovering above you is excellent though and all I need.

 

[Vitold]

Audi e-tron is soccer mom car, all around a town vehicle. As inefficient on a highway as Bolt or I-Pace. With EPA range close to 75D, with few fast chargers available to take advantage of its 150kwh charging rate and home charging rate as slow as Kona or Leaf.

As I said, it has its purpose and will sell but it is not a competition to Tesla or ICE vehicles. Audi’s goal to make a good second car and they succeeded.

 

[mtndrew1]

Between the I-Pace, EQC, and e-Tron it seems really apparent that Tesla has a huge lead based on fundamentals.

Two of these three won’t be available for another year or so and will be offering ~225 miles of range for ~$80,000 with similar ICE products in the same showroom for 30% less.

Jaguar doesn’t even build their model; it’s assembled by Magna in Austria. All use third party batteries.

The Model X is my least favorite Tesla but it’s already competitive with the German products a year before they’re on the road, three years after its launch.

With a conversion to a 2170-based pack, Model 3-based electronics and an interior refresh the existing Model X chassis will leapfrog these competitors with minimal investment. If Tesla ever gets autopilot where they intend to that’s another enormous competitive advantage.

Ultimately I think these two Germans are more Model Y competitors. They’re space inefficient medium size crossovers; a $50,000ish Model Y would suck all the air out of the room if Tesla can execute.

I’m sure the three competitive products will sell all that can be built but their respective manufacturers are not at all demonstrating that “any of the big automakers can do what Tesla has done if they wake up.” It’s becoming apparent that Tesla really does have quite a shocking lead and the stuff they need to improve is relatively easy and inexpensive to accomplish.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

If it wasn`t an SUV, which I´ll never buy, it would actually be worth considering for me.
We get a good 20-30% off of any Audi/BMW/Merc for our company fleet, plus eco/environment bonuses.
A Q6 e-Tron for about 60-65k actually sounds pretty good to me.
My last privately bought e-class was more expensive :/

Considering the disgusting boom of the SUV market this might actually be a pretty good contender in europe since it will also be available by the end of the year already and has an exterior and interior design/material mix that honestly looks a lot more premium than tesla.

 

[Valore]

Audi e-tron is soccer mom car, all around a town vehicle. As inefficient on a highway as Bolt or I-Pace. With EPA range close to 75D, with few fast chargers available to take advantage of its 150kwh charging rate and home charging rate as slow as Kona or Leaf.

As I said, it has its purpose and will sell but it is not a competition to Tesla or ICE vehicles. Audi’s goal to make a good second car and they succeeded.

There are tons of CCS chargers across Europe and growing strong. Basically all new ones are at least 150kW chargers, so there won't be any problems long range as the charging speed of the E-Tron looks pretty great.

Fastned, a dutch charging provider gives it 150kW charge until 80%, 50kW until 98%.
Charging with an Audi e-tron Quattro

Since they give detailed charge rates for various cars, these numbers are probably legit.
For example Jaguar IPace (85kW until 50%, 50kW until 80%): Charging with a Jaguar I-PACE

Hyundai Ioniq (70kW until 75%, 22kW above 85%): Charging with Hyundai Ioniq

 

[Valore]

If it wasn`t an SUV, which I´ll never buy, it would actually be worth considering for me.
We get a good 20-30% off of any Audi/BMW/Merc for our company fleet, plus eco/environment bonuses.
A Q6 e-Tron for about 60-65k actually sounds pretty good to me.
My last privately bought e-class was more expensive :/

Considering the disgusting boom of the SUV market this might actually be a pretty good contender in europe since it will also be available by the end of the year already and has an exterior and interior designt that honestly looks more premium than tesla.

If they put this E-Tron stuff into an Audi A6 Avant, I would purchase immediately.

But for now, I'll stick to my Diesel powered S-Class.

 

[Vitold]

Here is a quote from Fastned:

“On average the e-tron charges 100 km in 10 - 30 minutes.”

They give on average number that is a huge range with an intention to obfuscate much less exciting reality, I am afraid.

 

[Valore]

Competitive fast charging stats appear cherry picked.

Here is a quote from Fastned:

“On average the e-tron charges 100 km in 10 - 30 minutes.”

You left out the important sentences though, probably on purpose:


"The actual charge speed depends on the state of charge of the battery when plugging in. On average the e-tron charges 100 km in 10 - 30 minutes. At a 175 kW charger the charge speed will slowly drop as of 80%. At a 50 kW charger this happens only at 98%."

If you plug it in at 85% and it charges at 50kW, that's 25kWh in 30 minutes, so roughly 100km in 30 minutes.

If you plug it in at 20% and it charges at 150kW, that's 25kWh in 10 minutes, so roughly 100km in 10 minutes.

 

[WannabeOwner]

There are tons of CCS chargers across Europe and growing strong. Basically all new ones are at least 150kW chargers,

Not a single 150kW one in UK.

How many are there across EU yet? I know they are coming ... but Tesla is still rolling out more Superchargers, and I would much prefer to wait at a Supercharger with 20 - 30 stalls - average one departure every minute or so - than i would at a CCS site with very few stalls because the dwell time will be longer (same problem Tesla had originally when they only rolled out 2 & 4 stall sites), particularly if old slow-charging cars are hogging the stalls. Tesla have rolled out one site with 6 chargers since 2015 ... all the rest have been bigger.

 

[Vitold]

You left out the important sentences though, probably on purpose:


"The actual charge speed depends on the state of charge of
the battery when plugging in. On average the e-tron charges 100 km in 10 - 30 minutes. At a 175 kW charger the charge speed will slowly drop as of 80%. At a 50 kW charger this happens only at 98%."

So what the car can charge for few minutes at 150kw when empty. Most important is how long it takes to ‘fill up’ based on 10-30min per 100km - it will be slow, much slower than 150kW max rate leads you to believe.

 

[Valore]

So what the car can charge for few minutes at 150kwh when empty. Most important is how long it takes to ‘fill up’ and based on 10-30min per 100km - it will be slow, much slower than 150kwh max rate leads you to believe.

They say 150kW until 80%, 50kW until 98%.
That's what Audi is saying as well as Fastned.

If true, that would be significantly better than even Model 3, which starts to go down at 50% already with 50kW at 80% charge.

Basically the same as Jaguar IPace, although Model 3 has a higher peak charge until 50% (116kW vs. iPace 85kW):
The charge speed is up to 85 kW at our 175 kW fast chargers and 50 kW at our other chargers. The actual charge speed depends on the state of charge of the battery when plugging in. On average the I-PACE charges 100 km in 15 - 30 minutes. At a 175 kW charger the charge speed will slowly drop as of 50%. At a 50 kW charger this happens as of 80%. Charging with a Jaguar I-PACE

Red curve is charge rate, blue curve is state of charge.

 

[Vitold]

They say 150kW until 80%, 50kW until 98%.
That's what Audi is saying as well as Fastned

If true, that would be significantly better than even Model 3, which starts to go down at 50% already with 50kW at 80% charge.

View attachment 336068
View attachment 336069

There’s obviously a mistake in the stats because above does not reconcile with provided charging time of 10-30 minutes per 100km

 

[Valore]

There’s obviously a mistake in the stats because above does not reconcile with provided charging time of 10-30 minutes per 100km

It exactly does.
10 minutes of 150kW charging (between 0-80%) gives you 25kWh, 30 minutes of 50kW charging (between 80-98%) gives you 25kWh.

25kWh per 100km is what I expect the consumption to be around.

 

[mspohr]

Now as these „Tesla killers“ materialize, it becomes more and more obvious how advanced the Model X was and still is. It don‘t think the e-tron is bad, in contrary, seems like a good model without the technical flaws of an I-pace or especially an EQC. But the car does not set a new benchmark, it does not match the specs of a 2015 Model X. I also don‘t like the looks of the interior and the exterior, as ugly as the other Audis, but thats a matter of personal preference.

Here is a quick overview
- First 2019 e-tron models are more expensive than a Model X 75. Later models are about on par with similar equipment.
- base configuration is coming later (Did anyone blame Tesla for such behaviour with Model 3?)
- base configuration does not include rear airbags, cold weather package and towing
- range is lower than Model X75D, even though the battery is larger
- delivery is delayed to 2019, Audi is not able to meet timelines as promised
- their charging network is delayed
- the boss of the company is still in prison
- cw is 0.27 with virtual mirrors or 0.28 with classic mirrors. This compares to 0.25 (!) for the Model X with classic mirrors
- Maximum performance is limited to 8 seconds (S/X was critized heavily for max power decrease when heavily used ...)
- VMax is limited to 200 km/h (vs. 250 km/h for Model X)
- towing capacity is lower than the X.
- 5 vs. 6/7 seats available for the X.
- acceleration is lower, over 5 seconds vs. under 5 for the X

The e-tron has some cool features, like the virtual mirrors and the animated rear red LED string. But in practice, it will be worse than an X in many situations due to the lower efficiency and the lack of a good high speed charging network. It is good to have a rival for the X. Hopefully, this drives Tesla to improve the X faster, adding cool things like 360° camera views or virtual mirrors or better lights. But the e-tron shows clearly how hard it is to beat Tesla. They‘re so much in ahead of the competition in terms of EV drivetrains that the biggest and oldest and best car companies struggle beating them after years of engineering.

After having both Tesla killers, the EQC and the e-tron, on the table, I think it is safe to say that for those who waited, it is a good point in time to trigger the order button for a new Model X now instead of waiting another year to buy a rival that hardly matches the specs of the original.

Even UBS bear is not impressed:
UBS says Audi's new electric car shows industry has a long way to go to catch Tesla

 

[AnxietyRanger]

- delivery is delayed to 2019, Audi is not able to meet timelines as promised

Audi starts deliveries in its home market first (Europe), just like Tesla does (U.S.).

It seems e-tron quattro deliveries are indeed beginning in 2018 in Europe. As usual for Audi, U.S. deliveries start roughly 6-9 months later. This is normal for their new ICE models as well, if this timeline holds.

 

[schonelucht]

So what the car can charge for few minutes at 150kw when empty. .

Nope iT maintains 150KW all the way up to 80% and 50KW all the way up to 98%. Independently confirmed in real life conditions on real life chargers. This means that Tesla has found its match in fast charging. Let’s see if Tesla can retake that crown with supercharger V3.

 

[timf]

First things first, the title should drop Q6 since the e-tron never has and never will carry this moniker. Next, I wish people wouldn't call this and other entries into the EV market "Tesla Killers" and instead call them what they really are, Tesla alternatives.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with what I see. The price seems fair for what they are offering. They include several features that I wish Tesla would add like the 360° camera view, HUD, and Apple Car Play. Unfortunately, it does not look like the video mirrors are coming to the U.S. at this time. It's more practical since I don't need a third row or fancy doors, nor have recently driven more than 150 miles in a day. If I didn't already have a Model X, I would probably put this above it on my wish list.

That said, I would have a hard time justifying trading in my Model X for an e-tron. Even though I haven't used it, I like knowing that the Supercharger network is built out should I want to take a road trip. Model Y will almost certainly be a better value with more range and performance for a lower price. Hopefully Tesla can work through their growing pains since right now it looks like their resources are getting stretched thin with Model 3.

 

[mspohr]

There’s obviously a mistake in the stats because above does not reconcile with provided charging time of 10-30 minutes per 100km

30 minutes for 100km is about 25 kwh in 30 minutes which is 50 kw charge rate, not 150 kw
So, it starts off fast then tapers (basic battery thermodynamics)... Meh!

 

[Vitold]

Nope iT maintains 150KW all the way up to 80% and 50KW all the way up to 98%. Independently confirmed in real life conditions on real life chargers. This means that Tesla has found its match in fast charging. Let’s see if Tesla can retake that crown with supercharger V3.

50kW rate all the way to full is good if true and would explain why Audi is talking about regen so much.

I wonder how much battery logetivity is going to suffer due to high rate of charge and frequent charging.

 

[clyjr]

The reservation says 5-7 months, far from a year or so...
Now if the Model Y is officially announced before I get locked in to an eTron order, and has a chance to come out in 2019 (doubtful) I would pull my reservation and switch to a Model Y (performance version if possible). That's a big if though, look how long it took for the Model 3 production to get ramped up, I'm guessing you wouldn't be able to get your hands on a model Y until mid 2020 at the earliest.

I absolutely love my Model S, so I'd be perfectly content to stick with Tesla, but I unlike many am not against trying other brands... Maybe I'll do a lease on the e-Tron and switch to a Model Y after that...

Between the I-Pace, EQC, and e-Tron it seems really apparent that Tesla has a huge lead based on fundamentals.

Two of these three won’t be available for another year or so and will be offering ~225 miles of range for ~$80,000 with similar ICE products in the same showroom for 30% less.

Jaguar doesn’t even build their model; it’s assembled by Magna in Austria. All use third party batteries.

The Model X is my least favorite Tesla but it’s already competitive with the German products a year before they’re on the road, three years after its launch.

With a conversion to a 2170-based pack, Model 3-based electronics and an interior refresh the existing Model X chassis will leapfrog these competitors with minimal investment. If Tesla ever gets autopilot where they intend to that’s another enormous competitive advantage.

Ultimately I think these two Germans are more Model Y competitors. They’re space inefficient medium size crossovers; a $50,000ish Model Y would suck all the air out of the room if Tesla can execute.

I’m sure the three competitive products will sell all that can be built but their respective manufacturers are not at all demonstrating that “any of the big automakers can do what Tesla has done if they wake up.” It’s becoming apparent that Tesla really does have quite a shocking lead and the stuff they need to improve is relatively easy and inexpensive to accomplish.