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Audi Q6 e-tron EV
- Thread starter Tharo
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- Electric Vehicles
My apologies for continuing off-topic (can we have a moderator create a new thread and move these?), but I just wanted to make a few points about the Audi E-Tron EV.
At the moment, Tesla and their sales are currently insignificant in the grand scheme (compared to total car sales) and they have said as much multiple times over the past 2 years. However, the big car companies have begun to take notice, since many (like Audi) are announcing BEV vehicles. This is good.
However, these announcements are not that significant in my opinion, as it still doesn't show that the are committed to BEV technology, but rather just hedging their bets. Here is why I think that:
1.) The Audi is basically a "me too" vehicle, copying the Tesla template (e.g. battery skateboard). The range is even identical to the Model-S if you take into account the NEDC vs. EPA discrepancy.
2.) Audi sells and makes too much money on ICE vehicles to fully take BEV seriously. Audi will not fully commit to BEV like Tesla as long as the majority of their money comes from ICE sales.
3.) Solar panels seem like a gimmick to me. The only thing that they are useful for is to run a small fan on a hot day to keep the vehicle a little cooler. I don't think the extra cost is worth it.
4.) There isn't really anything that revolutionary about this E-tron that is BEV specific. There are some cool ideas, like the rear-wheel spoilers and retractable cameras, but nothing earth-shattering.
5.) This announcement hasn't taken into account the whole BEV use-case like Tesla does (e.g. super-chargers, home-charging with solar and batteries, giga factory, etc.). When are they going to address that too?
6.) Announcing something 3 years ahead of time serves no purpose other than to pre-emptively compete with Tesla. They are trying to tell future Tesla owners to wait for Audi.
7.) If Tesla continues at their rapid pace of innovation, in 3 years Audi will be 6 years behind.
The passage of California SB350 should certainly motivate other manufacturers to get more serious about the BEV market. It's going to size up rapidly in this state, and if any other state follows suit, the demand will be greater than if natural market forces were the only things at work.
Ok first of all can someone maybe put Audi e-Tron Quattro in the title, almost didn't find this.
Now it seems like there are a few spyshots out there.
Audi's electric E-Tron Quattro spied for first time in testing
Electric Audi E-tron SUV to race Jaguar I-Pace to market | Autocar
2019 Audi e-tron quattro spy shots
Now it seems like there are a few spyshots out there.
Audi's electric E-Tron Quattro spied for first time in testing
Electric Audi E-tron SUV to race Jaguar I-Pace to market | Autocar
2019 Audi e-tron quattro spy shots
I noticed the same thing. We've seen mule Model S vehicles doing that as well, though. I'm not sure what it means, but I'm happy to see it.
Thanks @Spidy!
Non-covered portions suggest two/three forward facing radars (one could also be a nightvision camera or something) and two rearwards facing radars, which of course theoretically fits with several current Audi sensor suites. I'd expect this one to come with the same Level 3 suite as the new Audi A8, though.
Non-covered portions suggest two/three forward facing radars (one could also be a nightvision camera or something) and two rearwards facing radars, which of course theoretically fits with several current Audi sensor suites. I'd expect this one to come with the same Level 3 suite as the new Audi A8, though.
Sean Wagner
Member
From a design and proportions standpoint, it still seems stuck in the horseless buggy phase. But it will also come by way of a worldwide, established dealer network, and with the quality and amenities expected of an Audi.
I don't think anyone knows what the lane keeping specs over all are.
The Level 3 specs top out at 37 mph at this stage at Audi (e-tron quattro included, I would guess), but that's a different question. That is actual self-driving, not a Level 2 driver's aid as AP. That's you can read a book stuff, once regulations follow.
Whether or not the car also offers a Level 2 driver's aid for lane keeping at higher speeds, I don't know. But I expect the Level 3 stuff to start at same as Audi A8 and not any faster at this stage - they are artificially limiting that because they take responsibility for the whole driving event there.
Sean Wagner
Member
I'm sure that given substantial inducements, they can be, er, unwarped. We'll see.
And I'm ever curious about where the batteries will be sourced from - I think both Samsung SDI and Lucky Goldstar are building smaller cell factories in Europe, while Tesla has shown that capacities for at least 100'000 luxury vehicles per annum can be supplied directly from Asia.
I have a feeling [based on amalgamated facts] there's going to be a deluge of cheap Chinese cells going into a globally expanding choice of metro delivery vans in the next couple of years. Fleet buyers should be sharpening their pencils.
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
With the epidemic of acronyms on this forum, it's nice to see someone spelling things out, even when 99.9% of us would recognize "LG" more than "Lucky Goldstar".
The name of the company that makes lithium ion battery cells is LG Chem and has been called that since 1995.
thegruf
Active Member
^this
VAG/Audi move from 2D spoilers to 3D spoilers is all.
and I bet that Tesla make their cars profitably and Audi will undoubtedly lose money on this to ensure it is competitive with Tesla on price.
Tesla have iro 30% of the worldwide Li Ion battery supply.
This alone means the competitors can only make twice as many cars as Tesla across all manfufacturers in all markets in total.
This is an irrelevant quantity to VAG/Audi who are c70X the size of Tesla.
Most of that battery supply is based in China which is the market pushing hardest for EV transformation, so much of the remaining supply will stay for China home market.
There is a reason Diess (VW) said Tesla are their competitor for the future
The thing I don't get about the reception Audi gets on TMC is that, out of all the large premium automotive makers, to me Audi seems to be the only one taking both BEVs and autonomous seriously - the two things Tesla has become known for. Autonomous they've always taken seriously and with BEVs they've done a real course correction after the R8 e-tron debacle (which in itself showed some real execution ability still).
Audi is very likely the first out with a Level 3 car (the new Audi A8) and they are the only one with a real roadmap of some volume of BEVs for 2018 and 2019 (the e-tron and e-tron Sportback), not just 2020+ (or very limited volume like Jaguar).
I think the scepticism and vitriol would be better spared for the likes of BMW, than they are for Audi. It is also the likes of BMW, Mercedes or e.g. the Italians and of course some Japanese, that are far more likely to have problems transforming into a BEV company, than the behemoth and basically a nation-state-backed company that is Volkswagen (of which Audi is part).
Some companies will be lost in the game to BEVs and Autonomous. Quite possibly some Germans too. I think you are betting wrong if you think Audi is the one.
While on the topic of mainstream companies transforming into BEV, I must conclude with a shoutout to Nissan and Renault. They are not premium brands, but they too have taken it seriously early on.
Audi is very likely the first out with a Level 3 car (the new Audi A8) and they are the only one with a real roadmap of some volume of BEVs for 2018 and 2019 (the e-tron and e-tron Sportback), not just 2020+ (or very limited volume like Jaguar).
I think the scepticism and vitriol would be better spared for the likes of BMW, than they are for Audi. It is also the likes of BMW, Mercedes or e.g. the Italians and of course some Japanese, that are far more likely to have problems transforming into a BEV company, than the behemoth and basically a nation-state-backed company that is Volkswagen (of which Audi is part).
Some companies will be lost in the game to BEVs and Autonomous. Quite possibly some Germans too. I think you are betting wrong if you think Audi is the one.
While on the topic of mainstream companies transforming into BEV, I must conclude with a shoutout to Nissan and Renault. They are not premium brands, but they too have taken it seriously early on.
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We shall see how much of a myth Tesla's access to the battery market turns out to be beyond the short-term.
This forum was full of people certain the Dieselgate would kill Volkswagen too (which I said at the time was ridiculous) and to me the battery myth seems possibly to be on a similar plane, it just gets repeated in an echo chamber and I do have to wonder how real it is in the end. Simialr with Autonomous, it wasn't that long ago when people were elevating Tesla and dismissing basically the efforts of the competition. Fast forward to 2017 and it is clear some of that ws just hype.
I think some of the usual perceptions surrounding Tesla require serious questioning. How much do we actually know of the status of the European battery factory projects, the capacity of the Japanese and the plans and executing on the Chinese? And how much of that is stuck in some ~2012 notion of where things stood when the Gigafactory was being rationalized and started?
Tesla's greatest achievement, for which in my books they will always get the credit, is the singlehandled turning of the attention of the world to the large-battery EV. They changed the world. But now that the attention of the world has turned there, it is interesting to see in which way and how fast those pre-concieved notions we're so familiar with here start changing. I think we need to consider, in our speculation, the possibility for a rate of change several multitudes faster than the usual Tesla bull seems to assume.
Some companies will be lost or seriously hurt by the transformation to BEV, that is obvious. It also seems obvious to me the transformation will elevate new companies, Tesla of course and possibly other startups as well. The automotive landscape will change. But I think some of the speculation just goes quite a bit too far.
thegruf said:
We shall see.
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