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Audio connectivity, Qobuz, Hi-res?

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,930
16,463
NC
And yet every other manufacturer has managed to do this.


Do what, an analog aux jack?

Certainly MANY cars did that- but some never offered it- and some have been removing it as fewer and fewer phones have analog outs.

Why would Tesla suddenly NOW switch to something that's dying off?


So where is an equivalent in the software?

For high def music?

FLAC (or similar) played from local USB storage.

That's it right now.

In theory, Tidal, coming "soon"

This is the most complex car around from an electronics standpoint

In some ways yes.

In other ways it's the simplest

The Model S wiring harness was 3 kilometers long.

When they iterated to the 3, they reduced this to half

Expect the next fresh design (CT presumably) to be vastly less again.



, almost everything built from scratch.

That's the point.

The best part is no part. More on that below-


But a $2 additional part would break Elon's $176B bank account? My heart bleeds...


You grossly underestimate the cost of adding a new part like this.

You'll notice there's also no blinking lights for blind spot in the side mirrors-- and no physical rain sensor for the auto wipers... there's no physical buttons for the memory seat position or side mirror controls...and a slew of other little places where they saved money every step of the entire build and supply chain by simply not including a part "everyone" else does.

Same reason the "cheap" interior for the SR never came into existence with cloth seats... it was cheaper to just keep using the existing premium seats compared to the cost of an entirely new part because even if the new part ITSELF is cheaper, simply HAVING an extra part adds cost at every single step.... sourcing, continuous supply chain, manufacturing complexity, inventory complexity, service complexity, etc...


There's a reason Teslas gross vehicle margins are 2-3 times higher than "everyone" else.
 
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rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
405
167
NJ
I predict that as time goes on and competition ramps up Tesla will start to add these missing basic features. Not sure if it is ignorance or arrogance holding things back at this point. Reminds me of Apple years ago when they were sure they knew better what their customers ought to want. All those features mentioned above should be in the car, and they will be eventually. We compromise and buy now because it does a lot of other things well, and it's fun to be an early adopter. But a successful modern luxury vehicle without HUD, BSM mirrors, Aux in, and even AM radio must be really really good at all the other stuff it does. ;)

At least they finally added the heated steering wheel. This is a good sign.
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,930
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I predict that as time goes on and competition ramps up Tesla will start to add these missing basic features.

I predict your prediction will be wrong and fundamentally misunderstands Teslas entire business model and way of thinking.


Not sure if it is ignorance or arrogance holding things back at this point.

It's a first principles way of rethinking how to make a car.

It's why legacy keeps getting their asses handed to them in the market.


Reminds me of Apple years ago when they were sure they knew better what their customers ought to want.

Not sure why you think Apple changed? They still think exactly that way- and are vastly more successful for doing it.

Hilariously- they removed the exact thing you're insisting Tesla will HAVE TO add sometime in the future.

The antique analog jack everyone freaked out about being removed, but almost nobody misses today.

Even legacy is starting to ditch the analog jack on cars- you're nuts if you think Teslas gonna move backward and suddenly add it.


All those features mentioned above should be in the car, and they will be eventually.

I'd be willing to bet a pretty significant amount of money they won't.

(arguably, I already am, given the size of investment in the company)
 

rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
405
167
NJ
Can you please stop trashing this thread? Your opinion is valuable but so much negativity makes it hard to hope. This is the way change starts, by people discussing what they want and proposing solutions. Sometimes complaining is the first stage. I think as a community we are still trying to determine how many of us even want better audio options. I believe Tesla will listen, evolve and become even better over time.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,930
16,463
NC
Can you please stop trashing this thread?

I'm not- I'm trying to temper your unrealistic expectations given what appears to be a fundamental misunderstanding of Teslas entire philosophy as a company.


This is not "negativity" it's reality.

Tesla removes parts whenever possible-- The model 3 at launch included all the following which it no longer does (and I"m prob leaving stuff out):

Frunk mat
Dead pedal
14-50 adapter
Homelink
Phone charging cables

In most cases the parts were just flat out removed without replacement (though there's post-purchase options available- it still removed them from the manufacturing process at significant cost savings)- in the case of the charging cables they instead now include a wireless charger.


On the refresh S/X they're removing the driving stalks on the wheel to get more parts out of the car.



Elon Musk said:
The best part is no part


So the idea Tesla would even consider, let alone actually do, the addition of an analog jack- when the time of the analog jack is in the rear view mirror already and even some legacy makers are ditching it- is honestly hilariously misguided.


If you're prefer to live in a fantasy land where such a thing could happen, that's totally your call. But pointing out that's all that idea is reality.




Your opinion is valuable but so much negativity makes it hard to hope.

See above. If you wanna hope for something that flat out is never happening, you do you.

But if you want to invest some time trying to understand how Tesla works you'll pretty soon realize why this isn't a hope that makes any sense.


This is the way change starts, by people discussing what they want and proposing solutions.

Folks have "proposed" these things since the original Model S in 2012.

Tesla has never indicated, even slightly, in any way, they're considering listening to those proposals- and as explained doing so is contrary to the way they think as a company.




Sometimes complaining is the first stage. I think as a community we are still trying to determine how many of us even want better audio options.


You seem to think Tesla just started making cars last week or something?



That's a thread from 2012.

On Teslas own forums.


Your desire is not new. But it is incredibly niche. And again Tesla is not interested in adding cost, complexity, and hardware to address it.

They've designed and launched 3 new vehicles since that 2012 thread (5 if you count the revamped S/X in progress right now) and added an analog in to none of them.

Not becuase nobody ever suggested it- because it was counter to their entire design philosophy (and increasingly MORE niche as phones drop analog ports)


Something like adding Tidal and allowing higher bitrate for it is the nearest to addressing it you are likely to ever see from the company.



I believe Tesla will listen, evolve and become even better over time.

They do become better over time.

The cost of the vehicle declines and the range, performance, automation, etc all improve.

Just not in the way you wish them to.
 

rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
405
167
NJ
... I'm trying to temper your unrealistic expectations

... analog jack - is honestly hilariously misguided.

... If you're prefer to live in a fantasy land ...

... You seem to think Tesla just started making cars last week or something?

... Your desire is not new. But it is incredibly niche.
Just a sampling from your last message. These sort of personal attacks should not be allowed on this forum. I would have thought that someone with such experience and reputation would know that. Have you ever listened to yourself berate others? How do you have so many likes?

Mods should temper your more abusive posts so the rest of us can have a meaningful conversation without your bullying.

PS: I just noticed how perfectly your avatar describes your behavior, and that made me laugh. So I guess you know this already :) The name too, Deadly Knightshade, killing stupid threads everywhere... Look, actually, I understand the temptation to debate "wrong thought" as in your avatar. Just please chill a little bit and I'm sure we'll get along. Peace.
 
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rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
405
167
NJ
... You grossly underestimate the cost of adding a new part like this.

You'll notice there's also no blinking lights for blind spot in the side mirrors-- and no physical rain sensor for the auto wipers... there's no physical buttons for the memory seat position or side mirror controls...
Have you noticed that Tesla includes 14 Speakers in their Model Y sound system, and two amplifiers?

  • Premium audio – 14 speakers, 1 subwoofer, 2 amps, and immersive sound experience

This does not sound like a company that is trying to conserve. It sounds like a company that really values good audio!

This gives me hope that they will one day allow for high quality input signals to feed those expensive amps and 14 speakers.

Honestly, I'm okay with Bluetooth AAC audio and I'm not sure I could even hear the difference while driving, but it is curious to me that a company that seems to be offering a premium sound system would not think this was important. Then I remembered it was you not Tesla that was arguing against it.
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,930
16,463
NC
Just a sampling from your last message. These sort of personal attacks should not be allowed on this forum.

You appear to be confusing attacking a person with attacking their arguments

My posts are doing that second one.

I politely explained it several times originally, you instead ignore history and facts and keep insisting if we just HOPE ENOUGH they'll entirely change their entire way of thinking and behaving.

That's absolutely hilariously misguided thinking and absolutely living in a fantasy land.

I even cited posted from 9 years ago to correct your seeming misunderstanding that you HAVE A NEW IDEA here, and if someone just MENTIONED IT TO TESLA then SURELY THEY WILL DO AS YOU WISH.

A tiny minority has asked for this stuff since 2012. Tesla has heard the request. They're not doing it- and I've explained, in some detail, why.


You just refuse to understand or accept the fundamental nature of the company and how they think- no matter how many examples you're shown.




Have you noticed that Tesla includes 14 Speakers in their Model Y sound system, and two amplifiers?

Yes I have!

Guess what?

That's the same stuff they put in the 3

Because, again, they have no interest in ADDING parts their catalog if they can at all avoid doing so.

In fact initial builds of the SR, which has 1 less amp, and many fewer speakers (but all the same LOCATIONS for them), actually [B}still included some of those speakers[/B] they just aren't connected to anything.

Because it was cheaper, manufacturing wise, to not change the build process initially.

That's why your "IT IS JUST A 2 DOLLAR PART" argument is so removed from reality. It's a lot more costly and complicated than that.



Honestly, I'm okay with Bluetooth AAC audio and I'm not sure I could even hear the difference while driving, but it is curious to me that a company that seems to be offering a premium sound system would not think this was important. Then I remembered it was you not Tesla that was arguing against it.


If you wanna keep pretending Tesla isn't aware of the tiny minority that has asked for an analog jack for 9 years now with Tesla showing 0 interest in adding one again- that's on you. You've been linked to 2012 requests, on Teslas own forums, asking for it by said tiny minority.

They're aware a few people want it.

But it's absolutely not happening.
 

ianc

Member
Nov 13, 2019
90
62
California
Don't lose heart. There are some people who will go to absolutely any length to win an argument, even though they don't realize they're utterly killing the spirit of the thread. I remember kids like this when i was little; seems some never grow out of it... 😕
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,930
16,463
NC
And some people never grow out of thinking their wishes will come true if they just BELIEVE HARD ENOUGH no matter how much facts and history show the thing they're wishing for is not going to happen.

Tidal, offering higher bitrate than current options, is a possible, reasonable, thing to hope for.

A factory analog audio input is not.
 

ianc

Member
Nov 13, 2019
90
62
California
"And some people never grow out of thinking their wishes will come true if they just BELIEVE HARD ENOUGH no matter how much facts and history show the thing they're wishing for is not going to happen."

Why is that a problem for you? You made your point. Move on...
 

drtimhill

Active Member
Apr 25, 2019
1,755
2,139
Seattle
I predict that as time goes on and competition ramps up Tesla will start to add these missing basic features. Not sure if it is ignorance or arrogance holding things back at this point. Reminds me of Apple years ago when they were sure they knew better what their customers ought to want. All those features mentioned above should be in the car, and they will be eventually. We compromise and buy now because it does a lot of other things well, and it's fun to be an early adopter. But a successful modern luxury vehicle without HUD, BSM mirrors, Aux in, and even AM radio must be really really good at all the other stuff it does. ;)

At least they finally added the heated steering wheel. This is a good sign.

The problem is these are niche things, and as others have noted Tesla is not interested in copying other cars .. why should it? AM radio? Get it on your phone and listen via Bluetooth. Aux in? What about audio cassette, or CD? 8-track, anyone?
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,930
16,463
NC
Why is that a problem for you? You made your point. Move on...

Weird you'd ask that of me, but not the guy who keeps stomping his feet and insisting if we just HOPE hard enough Tesla will change their entire way of doing business despite 9 years of evidence to the contrary.


If you go back to the original post of this thread- it's a Model 3 owner asking what his options ARE for playing high quality audio in his car.

"wishing and hoping" isn't really a valid answer to that.


Play uncompressed audio from local USB storage is a valid answer to that. The only one available right now in fact.

Looking forward, if they bit-rate unlock the Tidal app they're allegedly planning to add, that would be a second valid answer to the OP.
 

Zacster

Member
Sep 11, 2017
138
60
NYC
And some people never grow out of thinking their wishes will come true if they just BELIEVE HARD ENOUGH no matter how much facts and history show the thing they're wishing for is not going to happen.
And with this comment you are attacking the person making the request, not the request itself. You are doing exactly what you say you are not doing.
If there is a moderator out there, please close the thread. I've had enough of this forum.
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,930
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And with this comment you are attacking the person making the request, not the request itself.

No, I'm really not. Possibly you should read the post directly above the one you quote to notice I'm rephrasing something someone else said to me, casting a mirror upon their remark.

In this case I'm pointing out that magical thinking does not work.

Especially when those goals are directly counter to the fundamental business model and historical behavior of the company you're asking to make them happen.

Nor is "We just need to make tesla aware people want this" a valid argument, since as cited with sources Tesla has been aware of the small niche of folks asking for this for almost a decade now and has shown 0 interest in providing it.

Indeed, with each new car they design they generally try and design out parts, not add them.

That even most phones have dropped an analog output now is even more reason Tesla sure isn't going to ADD an input for one at this late date.



The OPs question has been answered- exhaustively.

But if one is still super sure there MUST be some simple way to do add an analog input, I'll be helpful yet again and suggest you speak to these guys:



They've done a number of many-thousands-of-dollars custom stereo upgrades to Teslas- including some owned by members.

Surely if there's an "easy" way to throw $ at the problem and solve it, they'll be able to help you- though I'm unaware of even those upgrades including an aux-in at least in the several threads I've seen on their stuff.
 
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rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
405
167
NJ
I give up.

1618797952587.png
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
8,895
9,908
Riverside Co. CA
(moderator note: Having received a report from this thread, I took a look at it. As was pointed out, from a moderation perspective there is a difference between attacking a person , and attacking an argument (otherwise known as a disagreement). I see a back and forth discussion on "we want this" vs an opinion that "tesla doesnt likely want that". I do not see anything specifically that needs to be moved / moderated away.

An example of a personal attack is usually some sort of insult toward someone. An example of a debate is " I dont agree with your position because XYZ"

Even if an opinion is contrary to other opinions in the thread, as long as the post points out what they disagree with, and doesnt attack the person, that is regular conversation / discourse / disagreement.

Since a comment was made "I dont know why moderators allow this" I thought I would reply with some context. I see some questionable posts that straddle the line (from more than one person) in this thread, but mostly just a debate, which is allowed.)
 

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