TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Audio: Testing audio formats

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by brianman, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. jcadman22

    jcadman22 MD: DRK NRG

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    292
    +1 for MediaMonkey users - The feature that I most want the Model S to support would be the ability to emulate an iPod. I use the MediaMonkey iTunes plug-in to synch tracks from my tightly organized MM library into iTunes just so I can use the dead simple Apple device synch for all devices. I would love to have the wi-fi synch capability in the car so it would just show up as another device in iTunes when it' on my wi-fi network.
     
  2. howabout2

    howabout2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Messages:
    140
    Presumably the USB ports are out of the way in a fashion that would allow you to essentially permanently plug in a 128 or 256GB USB stick? If so, that's how I plan to compensate for the relatively paltry in-car storage.

    (Frankly I hate it when capacity is measured in the "songs" unit since I have no idea what that means. 500 songs is what exactly? 2.5GB? My MP3-encoded music is roughly 5MB/song.)
     
  3. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    12,458
    Location:
    Texas
    +1 Capacity should be stated in gigabytes or terabytes.
     
  4. ManuVince

    ManuVince Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    252
    Location:
    Netherlands
    +1

    And I think it is listed in number of songs, because of the very poor data storage capacity the car has (in today's standard where you can buy a 32Gb flash drive for 30$), doesn't look very appealing.
    In the end I don't care much about that. But it really puzzles me... Why so few? It doesn't cost anything...
     
  5. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2012
    Messages:
    2,002
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    I hate it as well.

    When manufacturers do this, they probably calculate it based on encoding of 128 kbps, which any reasonable person would be able to tell the difference between this and CD-quality music. Most of my music is encoded at 192 kbps or 256 kbs, and more recently since space is not an issue so much, 320 kbps.

    Roughly, in 128 kbps, the song is as large as it is in minutes. Roughly. So, a 3:30 song is about about 3.5 Mb. 500 songs at 128 kbps is about 1.75 GB. So, the car probably has about a 2 GB capacity before formatting. At a 320 kpbs encryption rate, a 4 minute song is about 10 Mb. Assuming my rough math is close to accurate, a 2 GB storage device will hold 175 songs with higher encryption.

    For the flac lovers out there, a 4 minute song is about 25 Mb. So, you're gonna fit about 70 songs on there.

    Of course, I stopped doing math about 20 years ago, so I could be completely off...
     
  6. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    12,458
    Location:
    Texas
    My best guess is that it was the specified four years ago when the specs were first made--and the size would have been reasonable--and no one has bothered to update it because they were busy with higher priority items.
     
  7. Andrew Wolfe

    Andrew Wolfe Roadster 472 - S 440

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    565
    Location:
    Los Gatos, CA
    I think it is very likely that the system uses an SDHC card for storage. The limit is 32GB. Moving to SDXC can require a different controller on the processor chip. Tegra 2 did not support it - but at least some versions of Tegra 3 do - so it should be upgradable. I think Tegra 3 was a late-stage upgrade so that could explain it.
     
  8. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,220
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    As long as the upgrade path is relatively easy and cheap, I don't think most people will mind the initial weak storage space.
     
  9. kendallpb

    kendallpb Model S: P 8061

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,180
    Location:
    MD, USA
    I've bought non-Apple AACs, and RIP'd all my CDs as AAC. Anyway, FYI Apple hasn't sold DRM'd music for quite some time now, so while folks who've used the iTunes Store for quite some time (like me) have some DRM'd AACs from Apple, that's really a thing of the past. (You can "upgrade" to non-DRM'd + higher quality tracks, not that I'd waste money doing that.)
     
  10. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2012
    Messages:
    2,002
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Didn't know that, kendallpb.

    I usually buy from either the band itself or from Amazon.
     
  11. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,231
    #31 brianman, Jul 4, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
    Ideally one of the various converter apps would have a feature: "convert to set of precanned formats for testing a new device".

    In the absence of that, a set of human recommendations of formats to include (some in the thread are a start) combined with an app that can easily do a bulk export of set of user-specified formats in batch.

    Audacity and MediaMonkey don't seem to have that. I'll try doing a few manually, but batch is more reliable and strongly preferred.
     
  12. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,231
    #32 brianman, Jul 4, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
    Manually sucks, but it wasn't terribly RSI-inducing. Here are some that I've converted so far...

    MediaMonkey
    1. FLAC0
    2. FLAC6
    3. FLAC8
    4. MP3ABR160
    5. MP3ABR192
    6. MP3ABR256
    7. MP3CBR128
    8. MP3CBR320
    9. MP3VBR160
    10. MP3VBR256
    11. OGG2
    12. OGG5
    13. OGG10
    14. WAV22050M
    15. WAV22050S
    16. WAV44100M
    17. WAV44100S
    18. WAV48000M
    19. WAV48000S
    20. WMA_ABR
    21. WMA_CBR1
    22. WMA_CBR2
    23. WMA_VBR
    24. WMALossless
    25. WMAProABR
    26. WMAProCBR1
    27. WMAProCBR2
    28. WMAProVBR
    29. WMASpeechCBR1

    Audacity
    1. AIFF
    2. GSM_6_10
    3. MP2_160
    4. MP2_192
    5. MP2_256
    6. MP2_320

    Audacity needs some additional downloads or configuring for ffmpeg so I didn't bother with it.

    Any additional formats requested (and tools suggested to produce them)?


    NOTE: I've limited the filenames to alphanumeric 8.3 to avoid potential "sensitivity" in the Tesla file support.

    USB key 1: 4GB FAT32, all the formats above
    USB key 2: 128MB FAT, a subset of the formats above
     
  13. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,231
    Update:
    My Tesla co-pilot was accomodating, but we only had time to test the smaller FAT key. It seemed to play all the formats that I through at it, which included at least one of FLAC, MP#, OGG, WAV, and WMA. I'm not 100% sure it didn't "skip reject" some (because I was driving while she clicked through them) but it definitely did not "stall for a few seconds" reject any of them.

    Also note: the prototype at Bellevue mall (a) doesn't have a USB port and (b) has the wireless locked down. So no additional testing could be done there.
     
  14. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Rocklin, CA
    Was it pretty easy for her to find the files and just skip through them?

    Thanks for the testing!
     
  15. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,231
    I didn't see any "explorer" style user interface. She was just clicking the next button through them, giving about 5 sec of play time each. (Same song in different formats.)
     
  16. Bound466

    Bound466 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Very cool, thanks Brianman for checking that out. Very promising. Did it show you the file type on the screen as she played each file?

    I wonder if had the system only found 2 or 3 file types it recognized (out of the whole lot), but kept cycling through the same 2-3 files, it might appear that its playing more than just the 2-3 it recognized. Especially if you didn't see the file type being played.
     
  17. gmontem

    gmontem Model S P01707

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    226
    Location:
    Castro Valley, CA
    It is probably playing only recognized file types, skipping those using unsupported codecs like FLAC. I think future audio tests should use recordings of yourself speaking out the audio codec used, e.g., "If you can hear this, Model S can play two channel 24-bit 96 kHz FLAC."
     
  18. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,231
    Typically when formats are rejected by devices I've tried in the past, there's at least a few seconds where it tries and then aborts. I didn't see signs of that. Not definitive, but optimistic.

    And, yah, if I do the test again I'll try to have different content in each encoding so that it's easier to analyze.
     
  19. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2012
    Messages:
    2,002
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Thanks for the update.

    When you were playing the songs, did the ID3, etc. tags display the appropriate information (including album pics) on the screen?

    I am very curious to see if the display comes up with a list of folders (as in Windows Explorer or my Garmin) from which you can touch and select.
     
  20. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Rocklin, CA
    Could just do some negative path testing -- rename a text file or two as ".MP3" and watch it barf or skip.
     

Share This Page