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Australia\NZ Electric Vehicle Charging standards (Ban the J1772?)

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If you want to advocate for Type-2 being the standard for all public charging points going forward, are you willing to advocate for them to be socketed stations and that everyone should carry their own cable like they do in Europe? This solution is the only elegant way to move forward in a mixed vehicle inlet market because Type-2 vehicles carry a Type-2 to Type-2 cable and J1772 vehicles carry a Type-2 to Type-1 cable.

The Tesla destination chargers are actually the worst thing for the overall Australia charging infrastructure development because they are Type-2 captive cable and it is impossible for J1772 vehicles to use them. However, in effect, they are the same as the Tesla Destination Chargers in the United States - they are exclusive to Tesla vehicles and the site hosts know and accept that.

I can understand ChargePoint's reluctance to go with Type-2 because they have no hardware product to support it. Of course, they will paint the picture the way they did in the letter quoted above - it serves their interest. IMHO, the number of manufacturers (who sell trivial quantities of vehicles) matters a whole lot less than the volume market share of each charging port type.
 
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If you want to advocate for Type-2 being the standard for all public charging points going forward, are you willing to advocate for them to be socketed stations and that everyone should carry their own cable like they do in Europe? This solution is the only elegant way to move forward in a mixed vehicle inlet market because Type-2 vehicles carry a Type-2 to Type-2 cable and J1772 vehicles carry a Type-2 to Type-1 cable.

The Tesla destination chargers are actually the worst thing for the overall Australia charging infrastructure development because they are Type-2 captive cable and it is impossible for J1772 vehicles to use them. However, in effect, they are the same as the Tesla Destination Chargers in the United States - they are exclusive to Tesla vehicles and the site hosts know and accept that.

I can understand ChargePoint's reluctance to go with Type-2 because they have no hardware product to support it. Of course, they will paint the picture the way they did in the letter quoted above - it serves their interest. IMHO, the number of manufacturers (who sell trivial quantities of vehicles) matters a whole lot less than the volume market share of each charging port type.
see Ev Charger Level 2 - Quick Charge Power
Obviously US style but could work for Type 2.
 
see Ev Charger Level 2 - Quick Charge Power
Obviously US style but could work for Type 2.
Yes, this is the forthcoming solution for Tesla proprietary charging stations. The ideal customer is someone who has a North American Tesla vehicle and a J1772 vehicle. Destination chargers are another application of this specialty adapter. My main point was that Type-2 to Type-1 cables are standard in the industry while Jdapter and the reverse J1772 station to Type-2 Inlet adapter sold in Australia require some additional effort by specialty aftermarket companies. Not even Tesla provides these adapters.
 
No I think you're right on the money.


The good news is that the New Zealand Transport Agency has seen the light AND the better news is that apparently BMW has agreed to replace the charge ports on all i3s, and charge.net.nz agreed to replace all the CCS connectors on their Tritium fast chargers.

If NZ can do it, so can we!

Hi MDK,

I read through the link above. Just wondering where you have sourced the information regarding the CCS connectors being changed in BMW NZ's cars and Charge.net.nz's chargers?

Adam.
 
Agreed Mennekes will become the standard in Australia. In the not to distant future new models will arrive with CCS Type 2 including Hyundai Ioniq, Renault Zoe, Renault Kangoo ZE etc. J1772 will exist on japanese models as well as some US domestic models due to the shizen mains supply voltages for a while to come.
 
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Agreed Mennekes will become the standard in Australia. In the not to distant future new models will arrive with CCS Type 2 including Hyundai Ioniq, Renault Zoe, Renault Kangoo ZE etc. J1772 will exist on japanese models as well as some US domestic models due to the shizen mains supply voltages for a while to come.
I don't think it can be overstated how important it is that every CCS vehicle in country use the same connector. Having a mixture of CCS Type-1 and CCS Type-2 vehicles would be a disaster. AC connections are easy to adapt.
 
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I'm a Nissan Leaf and Outlander PHEV owner (both with J1772) and agree that Chargepoint and Australian car distributors adopting J1772 was/is a huge mistake. Mennekes (as used in Tesla destination chargers) with single and three phase matches our common electricity circuits which are effectively the same as Europe - up to 3 phase 32A.

One of the things that would get more support for a shift to Mennekes would be for Tesla to open up its destination chargers to non-Tesla EVs. Cars with J1772 can already use the Tesla's Mennekes based destination chargers using aftermarket Type 2 to Type 1 adaptors. I have successfully tested charging my vehicle at charging spots such as Eden Gardens and Chatswood Westfield which are not signed "Tesla Charging only".

At this time, there's no fear of a Leaf or other non-Tesla EV clogging up the Tesla Superchargers - only Teslas can use those stations. I'm only referring to the single or three phase Tesla destination charging locations.

I acknowledge that Tesla owners have indirectly paid for the destination charging network (as Tesla gives up to two free destination chargers per site) but from the site owners perspective I'm sure they are happy to have any EV owners frequenting their business and utilise the Tesla Destination Station. In a hypothetical situation where a Tesla and non-Tesla both wanted to charge then I would gladly provide the spot to the Tesla driver. Having said that there are an increasing number of low utilisation urban Tesla destination charging stations (Terrey Hills and Castle Hill Towers in Sydney for example) and by and large Tesla owners wouldn't need to charge at those facilities anyway to make it home - Leaf drivers much more so if they've driven from the other side of a major city.

So, how about putting the question to Tesla - if they want to increase the use of destination chargers (and business going to site owners - cafes, restaurants etc) - remove the Tesla Charging only signs and open them up for non-Teslas to use? Maybe change the signs to "Tesla Priority Charging"!

With over 130 destination charging locations Tesla is already rivalling Chargepoint and its free hardware charging station model (a ChargePoint CT4000 is rumoured to cost up to $10,000) will likely see it eclipse ChargePoint in 2017. Then, for a measly $250, the 58 of 60 EVs in Australia that Chargepoint reference as having J1772 could get access to the fastest growing charging network which has chosen the better AC charging technology - Mennekes.
 
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I actually care about and read up on the charging standards more than most people I know, but wow, it's a mess. I'm confident that I have a bad understanding. Is there any well written summary?

I looked for one a while back but I'll take another look.

You have your units mixed up. kW is the power being delivered at any instant. kWh is the energy delivered. 1kW, delivered for an hour, gives your battery 1kWh of energy.

Actually I'm good with kWh and kW. I was quoting the NZTA website!
 
Just chiming in quickly to say that I totally agree that J1772 is a poor choice for Australia. 3 phase charging is simply incompatible for J1772, and three phase is very common here in AU.

I'd suggest some sort of lobbying effort would be a good approach, but where? AEVA for sure, federal government for ADR rules? It baffles me why European brands (merc/BMW/porsche) are delivering cars with J1772 plugs. I suppose the on board chargers are so small that there is no immediate benefit to adopting a future proofed standard.

The mennekes plug allows for both 3 phase and type 2 CCS charging, the most versatile DC charging standard available. Type 2 CCS also allows for using the L1,L2,L3 pins to carry DC current (like the supercharger does) in addition to the big DC pins below.

I too carry the hope the model 3 and future S,X vehicles will carry type 2 CCS. Sure the plug is less pretty than the type 2 only, but the supercharger remains compatible but you get the added benefit of future fast public charging.

Oh, my conversion is J1772, as is the EVSE I have at home. As an early adopter I'm willing to take the hit of getting an adapter. Doing it right early on is more important than short term pain in abandoning J1772.
 
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I am amazed at the lack of take up of Teslas offer of destination chargers. In Adelaide there are a handful of chargers and there are a few spread across rural SA. I would have thought that it is a no brainier for businesses to take up Teslas destination charger option thus increasing the number of charging options.
 
Just another thought on this, whilst travelling, its probably worth leaving some information with accommodation providers to let them know of the Tesla Destination charger program. They might be convinced its worth signing up.

The more locations that have Telsa Destination chargers, the more Type 2 chargers are out there, and the more likely other EV manufacturers could be convinced to change to Type 2 for Australia. I'd already be pretty confident that Tesla has more Destination chargers out there than anyone else.

Adam.
 
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Here's my email to Chargepoint, the biggest installer of J1772's ...

Chargepoint.png



Let's see what response we get !
.
 
I realised today by telling PlugShare to filter by either J1772 or Mennekes or Tesla connectors - and zooming so that only Australia is visible (and excluding "Residential Chargers") that there are 100 J1772 charging locations, 150 "Tesla Wall Connector" (Mennekes) charging locations and 26 other Mennekes charging locations.

So J1772 has already lost, it just doesn't know it yet.

And right now (if you include the Plug-in Hybrids) there are more cars with J1772 sockets than Mennekes sockets in the country, but I suspect by this time next year that will no longer be the case - and that's before the pending Model 3 invasion.
 
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