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Auto Pilot doesn't seem quite ready for prime time

Discussion in 'Model S' started by sharrisbhs, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. sharrisbhs

    sharrisbhs Member

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    I am about 1,000 miles into my new model S and have concerns with the autopilot. I find it wonders in the lane. When I engage it initially it pulls to the left slightly right up to the edge of the lane. Even with clear lane lines. On gentle curves it makes small jerky corrections. Yesterday it became very confused as I approached a dotted lane line and pulled to the right suddenly. The sales person tells me that is normal during the calibration period. I am not so sure. Would appreciate comments from some of the tesla veteran owners. Thanks
     
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  2. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    That is a healthy attitude when using Autopilot because it is not a finished product. I consider it as still at a very beginning stage.

    If you read your owner's manual, you would see there are about 13 "Never depend" on the system.

    I don't consider that as an emphasis on legal disclaimer but as a confirmation of your current infant stage of Autopilot.

    That said, my AP2 for the past 3 months and 4,000 miles has been very useful because I've been expecting there are times that I need to intervene.

    I've been using it almost like all the time, may be 95% and very pleased with it.

    Your concerns are valid. If you don't think you can take over the system at any time then you should not use it until:

    Tesla will incrementally make the system more reliable to the point of self-driving with no need for human driver.

    Industry's timeline is by 2021 but Tesla believes it can achieve the goal much earlier.
     
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  3. oktane

    oktane Active Member

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    Yes, the system doesn't work as advertised. Right now Tesla hasn't figured out how to make it work properly. It might work as advertised in a few years or perhaps on future cars. It doesn't work nearly as well as AP1 on previous cars, despite Tesla's fraudulent claims to the contrary when they sold some of us cars in fall 2016.

    With time you'll figure out whether it saves you stress or adds to it. For me it's only slightly useful and I consider it more of a demonstration or toy until it becomes more proficient. It's still better than what most manufactures offer today, but will likely perform worse than what is available from other manufactures like Cadillac or Audi by the end of 2017.
     
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  4. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

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    I completely agree. We have years to go before it gets to prime time. My guess is ten years before Level 5. What we are hearing now is the typical hype. The is not an easy or insignificant advance in technology or social change. I think the social change will be the biggest barrier, by far.
     
  5. ElectricTundra

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    AP2 is, for now, a bit behind AP1 in some areas which is to be expected given the hardware change and need to build a completely new system. The progress made to date has been quite spectacular and it will significantly surpass AP1 fairly soon. Yes, it's frustrating now but the wait will be worth it. Those of us who purchased AP1 cars when they first became available had a similar wait and a similar ratcheting up of capabilities as time went on.

    Keep in mind that this is beta software. That I have seen there were no promises made about timeframes.
     
  6. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Disagree. I recently had the opportunity to drive my fathers new S and found that EAP worked extremely well on freeways. It was not perfect. It is a "driver assistance" tool, not a fully autonomous car.

    I was able to compare it to my mothers AP Model S, which also worked remarkably well. I did not detect any difference in performance between AP and EAP on the same freeways.
     
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  7. MarcusMaximus

    MarcusMaximus Member

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    The consistent pulling to the left sounds odd to me, and seems to be in line with others reports when their cameras weren't aligned properly. May be worth taking to your service center if it's consistent.

    The rest is in line with general experiences. The jerky corrections on curves should go away on your next update(you'll get this automatically if you do the Service Center appointment I mentioned), assuming you're on version 17.17.X or earlier. I got 17.24.28 and it eliminated that entirely.
     
  8. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Banned

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    What good is a safety system that you cannot depend on? To allow a vehicle to steer on your behalf requires, by definition, some abdication of control to a system that Tesla says is not dependable. That's the reality of it.
     
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  9. Mattzilla

    Mattzilla Member

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    My Tesla looks around, dutifully, and wonders, "what is it to be?"

    In response, I sit there with a dumb look on my face drinking Diet Coke while my car manages a traffic jam.

    I want my Tesla to wonder. But I don't want it to wander.
     
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  10. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    It is still in its infancy phase so it is reasonable to depend on the human skill and not the automation's reliability for collision avoidance.

    The owner's manual does not explain why they allow an imperfect Autopilot on the road but here's the background:

    Owners need to realize that there are 2 prevalent approaches to lead to the goal of driverless.

    1) Google/Waymo does not trust human skill to take over the automation system when needed so it will only release its system to consumers when human intervention will no longer be required.

    The advantage is: No one will die because of the system while the project is still being worked on.

    The disadvantage is: the project may take a long time and the public might not be able to get hold of the technology possibly by 2021 the earliest.

    2) Tesla believes if you are good enough to drive, then you are good enough to use Autopilot even when it is not perfect and requires human interventions at times to avoid collisions.

    The advantage is: The public gets a hold of the technology even when it is not dependable.

    Before I got AP2, I was driving with a basic cruise. It wasn't perfect. I had to intervene lots of times to prevent a collision. But to choose a car without a simple cruise and a car with one, I will always choose the one with one.

    Now that I am using AP2, I still have to intervene from time to time to prevent a collision. But if I have an option to drive one without or one with it, I will always choose the one with AP2 even I know that I cannot depend on it but it is still very useful to me.

    The disadvantage is: People can die if they depend on the system to reliably avoid collision.

    In summary, although the manual does not go into the background but it is up to owners to choose which approach to pay for (manual, simple cruise, Autopilot, or wait for future Google/Waymo driverless).
     
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  11. somnambule

    somnambule Member

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    Autosteer is a convenience feature, not a safety system.
     
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  12. MarcusMaximus

    MarcusMaximus Member

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    Sure, and to allow a vehicle to maintain a speed on your behalf requires, by definition, some abdication of control to a system as well. And yet, people love cruise control and many people depend on it for long drives. Some don't like it, and that's fine, but that doesn't make it less useful for those who do.
     
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  13. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT Quickish

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    I disagree with the 10 year prediction.
    I've seen an unstaged video of a Nissan Leaf prototype driving across London on normal roads. It had a huge on board computer and lidar, but the software was doing a pretty good job. There's no way Nissan is still 10 years away, and I bet Tesla is ahead of them.
    Once the problem is solved, it is solved permanently and cheaply for all future cars.
    10 years is an incredibly long time in tech. The very first iPhone was release 10 years and a week ago.
     
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  14. Burnt Toast

    Burnt Toast Member

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    They call the Nvidia computer in the AP2 AI, but I don't believe it's capable of wondering about anything. What do you think it's wondering about?
     
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  15. kev1n

    kev1n Member

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    do people really buy this car not realizing that auto pilot is still in beta?
     
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  16. keydiver

    keydiver Member

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    Where does your screen show the car, centered in the lane, or to the left of center? When AP1 was first implemented, I saw the same behavior. But, in my case it turns out that I usually drive to the right of center of my lane, and AP1 was just pulling me quickly to center. So, I just changed the way I activate AP1, making sure I was already centered in the lane, or maybe even a little to the left before activating it. At first it was a little unsettling, but now it seems normal, although I don't like how closely AP1 hugs the line on curves. I guess that since the camera is looking out ahead, where it needs to be shortly, it is somewhat cutting the corner.
     
  17. luckyj

    luckyj Member

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    It's wondering where the lane might be, of course :)
     
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  18. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

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    Right? I just spent an hour researching reviews on a $9 sleeping bag I'm thinking about buying. :rolleyes:
     
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  19. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    It will always be in beta, or feature removed until it's nothing like what was promised.

    Hands free driving from onramp to offramp? sure.... When it's out of beta.
     
  20. oktane

    oktane Active Member

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    The problem is, no one realizes it's in beta other than Tesla geeks. How is anyone supposed to know that prior to owning the car? Does it say that anywhere on the website? Did the salesman tell you that? Does it say it on the purchase agreement?
     
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