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Auto Pilot Is Dangerous

Toppatop55

~Life Is Good~
Feb 25, 2018
493
265
Connecticut
So, since I've updated to V10 I've notice my M3 (LRDM) exhibiting some weird and dangerous situations. For starters, Ive lost about 6% of my max charging miles on a two month old car. My biggest safety issue is autopilot nearly killing me and my 7 month old child. Putting too much trust in autopilot can make you complacent believing it's a finished product. While using autopilot on a ride home, my car started to bounce around in the lane as if it could not center itself. Before I could react, the car drove out of the travel lane on a 4 lane highway and nearly drove off the highway at 70 miles an hour. After regaining my nerves, I was ale to reproduce the incident and capture it on video. The scary part now is that the car frequently behaves like this, which leaves me unable to trust the autopilot system.

I have taken the car to the service center and the tech told me there's nothing wrong with the car and states that I should assume responsibility for any incidents that occurs as a result because I acknowledged the system is in beta when I purchased the vehicle. I don't know if this is satisfactory or legal but clearly there's something wrong with the car. Ive owned teslas since 2015 with my first MS85D and I have never experience anything like this before. I will try ad post all the videos I have and continue to post future videos until Tesla fixes the issue.



Tesla Autopilot - Google Drive
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,754
9,798
Visalia, CA
...trust in autopilot...

That is not good driving.

You should not trust autopilot because it is a beta product. It's not finished and there are many scenarios that Tesla hasn't covered them just yet. Maybe your scenario is the one that Tesla hasn't worked on just yet.

...the car drove out of the travel lane...

That's why you should be in control of your car at all times.

That means not only that I need to prepare to brake and accelerate (for phantom brake), but also, I hook my hand on the steering wheel and create a slight torque so I can get feedback on how well the Autosteer is.

Because my hand can feel the performance of the Autosteer, I can predict that it's doing wrong and I can reflexively correct its steering effortlessly and seamlessly without me realizing it.

If my hand is not feeling the Autosteer, by the time I put my hand back to correct the steering, it might be just too late.

I hope you realize that there have been Autopilot collisions, injuries and deaths so again, if you want to use autopilot, please use it correctly.
 

Toppatop55

~Life Is Good~
Feb 25, 2018
493
265
Connecticut
That is not good driving.

You should not trust autopilot because it is a beta product. It's not finished and there are many scenarios that Tesla hasn't covered them just yet. Maybe your scenario is the one that Tesla hasn't worked on just yet.



That's why you should be in control of your car at all times.

That means not only that I need to prepare to brake and accelerate (for phantom brake), but also, I hook my hand on the steering wheel and create a slight torque so I can get feedback on how well the Autosteer is.

Because my hand can feel the performance of the Autosteer, I can predict that it's doing wrong and I can reflexively correct its steering effortlessly and seamlessly without me realizing it.

If my hand is not feeling the Autosteer, by the time I put my hand back to correct the steering, it might be just too late.

I hope you realize that there have been Autopilot collisions, injuries and deaths so again, if you want to use autopilot, please use it correctly.
Just to be clear, when I first experience the issue I was using it as I should with both hands on the wheel. The video is to show that I was not the one steering off the road. I understand that it is beta but most Tesla’s do not behave that way. You would think Tesla would take such isolated situation seriously and make every attempt to diagnose and correct the software or hardware. Whatever is causing the issue. This issue will only scare new and potential Tesla customers to think twice about their crown jewel feature.
 
I watched your videos and can see that TACC and AS are both enabled. What you experienced definitely is not expected behavior, especially given that the car recognized that it wasn't centered in the lane, but failed to correct itself. When you went to the SC, did you show the tech. the video and point out that the car departed from a detected lane? From my experience, V10 on a Model 3 should be able to handle those lane markers without any issues at all.
 

dmurphy

Active Member
Supporting Member
The danger here is in keeping your hands on your cellphone to record a video, instead of on the steering wheel. I notice that your hands are not visibly on the wheel in any of these videos; I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that it’s just out of frame, but Autopilot is not hands-free driving.

Autopilot is a driver’s aid, not a replacement for the driver. You still need to keep your hands on the wheel at all times. You still need to pay attention, and you are still responsible for the safe operation of the 2-ton machine sitting underneath you.

Much as we’d all love our cars to just do everything themselves, Autopilot isn’t that. Not to take the shine off the apple, but it’s just a driver’s assistant, and no more.
 
What your are experiencing in those videos is definitely not normal. As suggested above, show those to your service center.

It seems to want to favor the right side. The car seems to know this based on the screen visual, but it’s having trouble correcting.

Is the car pulling to the right under normal driving conditions (without AS engaged) ?
 
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Reactions: mynameisjim

cucubits

Active Member
May 17, 2019
1,751
1,822
TX
Wow that's scary stuff. Thanks for sharing. I agree, this tech is not perfect and undue faith in it is dangerous. Glad you and your loved ones are okay and thanks for taking a video to share with us.

In that case mind if I ask why you "disagreed" with the posts above? They explain clearly what autopilot is and what it isn't and how it's supposed to be used.
 

Petrlol

Member
Oct 16, 2018
405
552
Ohio
The service center needs to provide an explanation for those videos. There is clearly an issue, those lane markers were nearly perfect and the car shouldn't just randomly decide to head towards the barrier. "You're responsible at all times" shouldn't be a go to answer when you can actually demonstrate a problem as plainly as you did.
 

DopeGhoti

Active Member
Aug 28, 2019
1,262
1,438
Phoenix, AZ
Yikes. I just watched your videos, and that is not normal behavior from Autosteer. At all. A few suggestions:

First, don't "test" this in traffic anymore like you did in some of the videos you posted.

Next time this happens, immediately disengage Autosteer, press the right button on your steering wheel and say "Bug report: Autosteer veered out of lane". Do this every time it happens.

Secondly, take these videos to the service center and show them what is going on. Rightly or wrongly, a technician will hear a customer saying "the car is veering out of the lane like a drunk driver" and assume the complainant is exaggerating or misremembering. Not out of any sort of malice, but because many people in service industries have the perception -- again, rightly or wrongly -- that customers lie like rugs.

Thirdly, and most importantly: Obey the instructions for correct use of a Autosteer: keep your hands on the wheel, and if the car tries to steer you out of your lane, don't let it. Autosteer will then disingage and stop fighting you.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,754
9,798
Visalia, CA
...most Tesla’s do not behave that way...

Then how do you explain existing Autopilot related collisions, injuries, and deaths?

Multiple videos demonstrate that Autopilot may not keep lane at all times and if drivers were not ready, they could be dead!

It's BACK! After 6 months of working fine, 2019.5.15 drives at barriers again : teslamotors






Imperfections and risks of collisions, injuries, and deaths... are just the nature of "beta" that some people might be in denial and act as if it's a final product.

Just keep your hand with a slight torque and these incidences are easily controlled by drivers reflexively.

It will get better but make no mistake that it is still a beta product and acts like one.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: Daedelous

Toppatop55

~Life Is Good~
Feb 25, 2018
493
265
Connecticut
Yikes. I just watched your videos, and that is not normal behavior from Autosteer. At all. A few suggestions:

First, don't "test" this in traffic anymore like you did in some of the videos you posted.

Next time this happens, immediately disengage Autosteer, press the right button on your steering wheel and say "Bug report: Autosteer veered out of lane". Do this every time it happens.

Secondly, take these videos to the service center and show them what is going on. Rightly or wrongly, a technician will hear a customer saying "the car is veering out of the lane like a drunk driver" and assume the complainant is exaggerating or misremembering. Not out of any sort of malice, but because many people in service industries have the perception -- again, rightly or wrongly -- that customers lie like rugs.

Thirdly, and most importantly: Obey the instructions for correct use of a Autosteer: keep your hands on the wheel, and if the car tries to steer you out of your lane, don't let it. Autosteer will then disingage and stop fighting you.

While I appreciate your safety suggestions , I’ll address a few of them.

1. I do not test the system for the issue. When it presents I try to capture it for the sole purpose of have long the proof for service center.

2. During the first week and following days before my service appointment, I sent over 15 bug reports immediately after each incident.

3. While waiting a week and a half for my service appointment since I couldn’t speak to a real person for the emergency, I was contacted and asked 3 times to send the videos to SC. All 3 times the videos were sent to SC twice and corporate once. The. I got to service center and they said they had no knowledge about any video and denied there was any issue with the car. Even after I pulled out my phone and showed the tech the videos. That’s when he said it’s a beta system and I should assume the risk if I continue using it. (I also recorded that conversation).

4. Maintaining control over auto steer... that’s common sense but yes I do practice that.
 

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
7,560
7,021
MA, NH
When ever you get odd AP behavior I like to save the Video with TeslaCam to see what it was using for data. Even though it appeared to recognize the lines there might have been bogus data in one of the other cameras. Like it saw a phantom truck on your left. The AP screen doesn't always show everything.

P.S. TeslaCam / Sentry can cause problems with the FSD Computer (sad as that is).
If the problem is 100% repeatable, try removing USB and do 10 min shutdown and try AP again. Just a random thought.

Thanks for posting Video !!
 

Toppatop55

~Life Is Good~
Feb 25, 2018
493
265
Connecticut
Then how do you explain existing Autopilot related collisions, injuries, and deaths?

Multiple videos demonstrate that Autopilot may not keep lane at all times and if drivers were not ready, they could be dead!

It's BACK! After 6 months of working fine, 2019.5.15 drives at barriers again : teslamotors






Imperfections and risks of collisions, injuries, and deaths... are just the nature of "beta" that some people might be in denial and act as if it's a final product.

Just keep your hand with a slight torque and these incidences are easily controlled by drivers reflexively.

It will get better but make no mistake that it is still a beta product and acts like one.
I never said all Tesla’s didn’t behave like that. I said most which I stand by. If most the their vehicles behaved like this, Tesla would not still be in business.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,754
9,798
Visalia, CA
I never said all Tesla’s didn’t behave like that. I said most which I stand by. If most the their vehicles behaved like this, Tesla would not still be in business.

It's very unfortunate that people do not appreciate the seriousness of the nature of a beta product.

This beta product requires a licensed driver who is competent in steering, braking and accelerating as needed.

If a driver does not know how to steer, brake and accelerate then please do not use the current beta Autopilot.

Autopilot is safe as long as there's a competent licensed driver who knows how to put basic driving skills in practice.
 
If you truly have video evidence, then Tesla cannot turn you away. I use autopilot everyday. The only time my car acts that way is when it cannot see the lines in the road, or when there are no lines. However, mine kicks out of AP when that happens.

ALWAYS drive with a hand or two on the wheel so you can feel AP starting to do something stupid. It's beta and it's still your responsibility to control your car..
 

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
7,560
7,021
MA, NH
It's very unfortunate that people do not appreciate the seriousness of the nature of a beta product.

This beta product requires a licensed driver who is competent in steering, braking and accelerating as needed.

If a driver does not know how to steer, brake and accelerate then please do not use the current beta Autopilot.

Autopilot is safe as long as there's a competent licensed driver who knows how to put basic driving skills in practice.

Why are you giving him such a hard time. Even as Beta something is extremely wrong. And "Beta" is no excuse. I'd be pissed.

Now we don't know if it's a legitimate bug, due to glare in his left camera or what but he should get some reasonable answer than just "it's beta, live with it". I sure would like to know the root cause.

He's sharing his experience and Tesla's response for others. And I appreciate it.
 

Toppatop55

~Life Is Good~
Feb 25, 2018
493
265
Connecticut
It's very unfortunate that people do not appreciate the seriousness of the nature of a beta product.

This beta product requires a licensed driver who is competent in steering, braking and accelerating as needed.

If a driver does not know how to steer, brake and accelerate then please do not use the current beta Autopilot.

Autopilot is safe as long as there's a competent licensed driver who knows how to put basic driving skills in practice.
I don’t usually react this way but that is an idiotic response. Jus because something is in beta doesn’t mean it should try and kill you and your family. By your standard if you still have to drive a Tesla like a regular car then please explain to my why thousands of people are giving them thousands of dollars for autopilot and “Semi” FSD?
 

Toppatop55

~Life Is Good~
Feb 25, 2018
493
265
Connecticut
Why are you giving him such a hard time. Even as Beta something is extremely wrong. And "Beta" is no excuse. I'd be pissed.

Now we don't know if it's a legitimate bug, due to glare in his left camera or what but he should get some reasonable answer than just "it's beta, live with it". I sure would like to know the root cause.

He's sharing his experience and Tesla's response for others. And I appreciate it.

funny. I thought the SC would think it was a sun glare as well. Which is why I provided night time footage. This thing does it all the time now.
 

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