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Auto Pilot Is Dangerous

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I watched your video's and mine has never done anything like that before when the stripes are in good condition. I've purposely used it down the sketchiest roads around just to see what it's limitations are and mine has performed pretty admirably in much worse situations. If you watch the tesla cam video's is the picture quality good on the passenger side camera's? Have you tried a hard reboot?
 
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So, since I've updated to V10 I've notice my M3 (LRDM) exhibiting some weird and dangerous situations. For starters, Ive lost about 6% of my max charging miles on a two month old car. My biggest safety issue is autopilot nearly killing me and my 7 month old child. Putting too much trust in autopilot can make you complacent believing it's a finished product. While using autopilot on a ride home, my car started to bounce around in the lane as if it could not center itself. Before I could react, the car drove out of the travel lane on a 4 lane highway and nearly drove off the highway at 70 miles an hour. After regaining my nerves, I was ale to reproduce the incident and capture it on video. The scary part now is that the car frequently behaves like this, which leaves me unable to trust the autopilot system.

I have taken the car to the service center and the tech told me there's nothing wrong with the car and states that I should assume responsibility for any incidents that occurs as a result because I acknowledged the system is in beta when I purchased the vehicle. I don't know if this is satisfactory or legal but clearly there's something wrong with the car. Ive owned teslas since 2015 with my first MS85D and I have never experience anything like this before. I will try ad post all the videos I have and continue to post future videos until Tesla fixes the issue.

Tesla Autopilot - Google Drive

I think the SC tech is wrong. That is not normal behavior.
 
funny. I thought the SC would think it was a sun glare as well. Which is why I provided night time footage. This thing does it all the time now.

If it does it all the time, that's probably a good thing. Intermittent can be a bitch.

I would try to grab some TeslaCam footage if it's that repeatable.
Could be a faulty camera.

If Video all looks good just make another appointment, maybe a Mobile one (use other and word it carefully so they don't cancel it on you).
Just ask them to go for a test drive with you and show them AP is not working right, don't try to show Video.

Also rule out TeslaCam itself and shut that down. If the disk gets corrupt I think the whole system starts getting bombarded with errors and does not handle it appropriately. Just rule that out.
 
I think the SC tech is wrong. That is not normal behavior.

Keep in mind from Tech's point of view they probably get bombarded with "Videos" and don't know the exact conditions and we know there are plenty of real problems with AP.

Since real hardware failures are rare I think he's just getting immediately binned into the Customer that doesn't understand it's not perfect bin.
 
I got to service center and they said they had no knowledge about any video and denied there was any issue with the car. Even after I pulled out my phone and showed the tech the videos. That’s when he said it’s a beta system and I should assume the risk if I continue using it. (I also recorded that conversation).


This is par for the course unfortunately. I would try making an appointment at a different service center if there are any others nearby. There are not a lot of escalation routes in Tesla anymore, one of the downsides of the non-dealership model.

Also, if you are concerned about the safety of the system, you can file a complaint on the NHTSA website as well.
 
I watched your video's and mine has never done anything like that before when the stripes are in good condition. I've purposely used it down the sketchiest roads around just to see what it's limitations are and mine has performed pretty admirably in much worse situations. If you watch the tesla cam video's is the picture quality good on the passenger side camera's? Have you tried a hard reboot?
yes the camera quality resembles the left side camera quality and yes iv'e tried soft reboot and hard reboot, not to mention I sure the SC did the same as well during the two days they had my car for service.
 
Why are you giving him such a hard time. Even as Beta something is extremely wrong. And "Beta" is no excuse. I'd be pissed.

Now we don't know if it's a legitimate bug, due to glare in his left camera or what but he should get some reasonable answer than just "it's beta, live with it". I sure would like to know the root cause.

He's sharing his experience and Tesla's response for others. And I appreciate it.

I am sorry that being factual might be seen as giving "a hard time".

It may not happen all the time but Autopilot is known to do things that we don't expect.

I see this as just one of the imperfections that Autopilot will get better but I do not see there's any hardware malfunction.

Autosteer command was activated and the icons lit up as designed.

Whatever the automation steered, it's all displayed on the instrument cluster faithfully and flawlessly.

When autosteer steered out of the right lane marker, the instrument cluster also displayed that very clearly and flawlessly.

I don't think there's any problem with the sensors nor the computer because it faithfully reported what it was doing and what it was intending to do: moving out of the current lane and try to fit in a gore point or a road shoulder.

The problem is logic.

Why would it want to move out of a perfectly good lane and try to fit in a gore point or a road shoulder?

It's a logic immaturity problem that resulted in the 2018 death of Walter Huang.

upload_2019-11-5_10-7-16.png


Tesla does not have the luxury of Waymo who send its fleet out and pre-map in high resolution of the road way of every gore point, every road shoulder, every light pole, every tree...

That might explain why Autopilot wants to squeeze in a gore point or a road shoulder in this thread. Autoplilot is not matured enough to make this kind of decision just yet.

Tesla's method is different from Waymo's.

Tesla does not want to write hard codes to perfect Autopilot but it relies on owners to do corrections so the whole fleet will eventually learn from the mistakes too.

And that's what Consumer Reports says:

"Jake Fisher, CR’s senior director of auto testing, says consumers are not getting fully tested, consumer-ready technology. In essence, he says, Tesla owners are being enlisted as beta testers to help fine-tune the technology for the future—even though they’re paying $6,000 up front for the promised automation.

“What consumers are really getting is the chance to participate in a kind of science experiment,” he says. “This is a work in progress.”"
 
This is par for the course unfortunately. I would try making an appointment at a different service center if there are any others nearby. There are not a lot of escalation routes in Tesla anymore, one of the downsides of the non-dealership model.

Also, if you are concerned about the safety of the system, you can file a complaint on the NHTSA website as well.

I have made an appointment with another SC mobile service. the next available date is Nov 18th. if that doesn't go well, I'll make the long drive to Dedham, Mass.
 
This is very strange. I was expecting to see in the video that the cameras weren't properly recognizing the lanes and it was ping ponging you around but it clearly sees the lane markings and still drifts off.

I've never seen AP act like this before, something is definitely off.
Wholeheartedly agreed. While @Tam upthread is seemingly correct in that there is clearly a logic problem (the videos show on the MFD that the car did seem to know where the lane lines were, but was inexplicably steering away from them regardless), it is still a problem and very much an outlier in terms of Autosteer performance. This goes way beyond "Autosteer sometimes does derpy things" -- something is wrong with this specific car somewhere that is causing Autosteer to -- if you'll forgive the pun -- go off the rails. And it could be a hardware fault as the root cause of a logic fault- if the wiring harness connecting the sonar and camera inputs is somehow improperly connected (loose, for example) that could cause something like this.
 
Wholeheartedly agreed. While @Tam upthread is seemingly correct in that there is clearly a logic problem (the videos show on the MFD that the car did seem to know where the lane lines were, but was inexplicably steering away from them regardless), it is still a problem and very much an outlier in terms of Autosteer performance. This goes way beyond "Autosteer sometimes does derpy things" -- something is wrong with this specific car somewhere that is causing Autosteer to -- if you'll forgive the pun -- go off the rails. And it could be a hardware fault as the root cause of a logic fault- if the wiring harness connecting the sonar and camera inputs is somehow improperly connected (loose, for example) that could cause something like this.

I feel like people are jumping on this guy's back before even watching the videos. If my AP did this I honestly would never use it.
 
Definitely not normal. Glad you are going to another SC, cause that would have been my suggestion. If you get no joy, I'd send the info to one of the Tesla websites, like Electrek, etc., to see if they'll run an article about it. That'll get some attention, because a safety issue is critically important to get right.
 
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I have tried AutoPilot only twice....and twice had to shut it down because of its strange behavior (i am in Europe, thus maybe the system needs to be adapted). Anyway I still feel the Model 3 is the safest car I have ever driven, and the most fun...but I do not want to beta test FSD with my life, even more so with my 7 months old baby in the car. And I paid 6 K to become a beta tester :(
Benoit
 
I feel like people are jumping on this guy's back before even watching the videos. If my AP did this I honestly would never use it.

Agreed. While the driver must remain in control of the car at all times, the AP behavior that OP reported is clearly out of the norm of the expected AP behavior. It is true that AP cannot handle corner cases, but nothing in the video suggests that this is even remotely a corner case. Therefore, it is more likely than not a defect in this particular car and something the SC should look into.
 
NOT even remotely normal behavior.

I'd suggest 2 things-

1) If possible, as someone else suggested, since it's repeatable- see if another tesla owner has the same issue at the same spot.

2) Again since you say it's repeatable- Insist the tech telling you it's normal take a drive with you and show it to him rather than trying to get him to view/understand video
 
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...nothing in the video suggests that this is even remotely a corner case. Therefore, it is more likely than not a defect in this particular car and something the SC should look into.

This is not the first time that Lane-Keeping feature went astray. NTSB preliminary report on the fatal Autopilot of Walter Huang:

"As the Tesla approached the paved gore area dividing the main travel lanes of US-101 from the SH-85 exit ramp, it moved to the left and entered the gore area. The Tesla continued traveling through the gore area and struck a previously damaged crash attenuator at a speed of about 71 mph."

crash-ed.jpg


It's repeatable because:

"Walter Huang's family tells Dan Noyes he took his Tesla to the dealer, complaining that -- on multiple occasions -- the Autopilot veered toward that same barrier -- the one his Model X hit on Friday when he died."

That's how the beta works. It's safe if a driver is in control. It can be deadly if a driver gives up the control and allows it to steer out of a desirable lane.
 
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