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Auto-present handles OFF touching rear handles does nothing

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by scottm, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    Normally I leave auto-present handles ON all the time.

    In this mode sometimes the car will not present handles. Like when it detects I'm hanging around the car too much and stops auto-presenting cycling all the time and finally gives up, leaving handles tucked in. When this happens I can touch any door handle on the car and they will all present. All good.

    I turned auto-present OFF at a car show.

    As expected, the handles stay tucked in all the time do not auto-present. It's only when I touch a front door handle do they all present. Touching a rear handle (either side of car) does not cause them to present. Only front door handle touches wake them up.

    I swear I used to be able to touch any handle when auto-present was turned off. But now, just fronts. Is this the new normal? An auto-relocking behavior was introduced recently (and it sucks!) and I'm thinking maybe an auto-present change came down at the same time.

    Can somebody else comment if they have same behavior I'm seeing, as the new normal?
     
  2. gabeincal

    gabeincal Enjoying Napa life the electric way

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    I wanted to ask the same question actually. My rear ones present sometimes when I press them, but I couldn't find a pattern or a cause when sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Are they even supposed to present? SC couldn't answer, they just said maybe the car is sleeping when it doesn't present.. Hmmm
     
  3. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    I tried again today... and got success on touching the rear handles to present them...

    This is a "sometimes" thing.. and this may be the conditions:

    Condition: rear hatch and/or front hood were up.
    Touching the rear handle in this state presents the handles.

    Car is all closed up, hatch and hood down, all doors shut...
    Touching the rear handle is a no-go, touching a front handle is a yes
     
  4. gabeincal

    gabeincal Enjoying Napa life the electric way

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    Sounds about right. I'm wondering if this is documented somewhere..? :) But I'm not going to read through the manual o_O
     
  5. Skipdd

    Skipdd Member

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    I use Auto-Present Off and rear handles have never presented. I just accepted it as that's how it works.
     
  6. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Not 100% sure, but I believe the issue is whether the car sees the fob. The antenna is in the rear view mirror assembly. Standing at the back door you may be too far away - it is very short range.
     
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  7. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    I'll try experiment again, both ways with fob placed on the glass roof. To keep that constant.
     
  8. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    Nope, it's not a matter of key being further away...

    If I stand in spot beside the B pillar... touching the rear door handle with right hand does nothing, and without moving my body or the key in my right pants pocket... touching the front (driver) door handle with my left hand ... presents handles.

    I also repeated the experiment by placing the key on the middle of the glass sunroof. Touching any door did nothing... That sunroof is a dead spot.

    I also repeated the experiment with a passenger standing on that side of the car (with no key of their own) whilst I stood at the B pillar on the driver's side doing nothing (with the key in my pocket). I had the passenger first touch the rear handle on their side of the car... a few times... no presentment. Then they touched the front handle ... and they presented.
     
  9. SMAlset

    SMAlset Member

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    #9 SMAlset, Jun 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
    We were just discussing this ourselves. We have Auto Present Off. Hubby's front door will present. However the front passenger for me won't and that's even with a fob in my hand and not buried in my purse. Seldom use the rear doors so haven't tried them.

    OK so checked the manual and I think this explains it:

    "When you walk up to Model S carrying your key, doors automatically unlock. If a door handle is retracted, press it and it extends. If the Auto-Present Handles setting is turned on (see Using Exterior Door Handles on page 6), you do not need to touch the door handle. Instead, door handles extends automatically as you approach Model S. To open the rear trunk, press the switch located under the trunk’s exterior handle.

    Note: You can choose whether you want all doors, or just the driver's door, to unlock when you approach Model S carrying your key (see Door Unlock Mode on page 6).

    When carrying your key with you, you can also open the rear trunk without having to use the key. Simply press the switch located under the trunk’s exterior handle. Door Unlock Mode (see Door Unlock Mode on page 6) must be set to All.

    Door Unlock Mode

    You can choose whether you want all doors, or just the driver's door, to unlock when you approach your vehicle carrying your key. To do so, touch Controls > Settings > Vehicle > Door Unlock Mode and choose Driver or All."


    And when using the Fob:

    "Note: If Door Unlock Mode setting is set to Driver, double-clicking unlocks only the driver's door and you will need to double-click again to unlock all doors and trunks. If set to All, the first double-click unlocks all doors and trunks. Use the touchscreen to change this setting (touch Controls > Settings > Vehicle > Door Unlock Mode)."

    Our car is presently set to Driver so I think that explains it--only Drivers door will unlock so the others and trunk won't open with a touch. And that's why he needs to depress the Park button twice* to unlock the doors for me when he gets in or I have to double click my fob twice....However, he says when he was with a neighbor yesterday the passenger side did work on touch so he claims it works sometimes and not.o_O

    *"You can also unlock doors and present handles by pressing the Park button on the end of the gear selector a second time (i.e., after pressing it one time to engage the Park gear)."
     
  10. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    All of that said (manual instructions quoted)... does not explain why rear doors don't present to touch but both front ones do.

    Sooo... a bug in software? a defect on my car? or ... working as designed but not exlained?

    Still don't have an answer.

    More people would have to try and report back to determine if it's wide spread behavior... (working as designed).
     
  11. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    I'm paying a lot of attention to rear handles lately to see when they present and don't... and noticed that opening the rear hatch door from outside the car using the fob (double click on hatch area) also presents all door handles.

    I don't think it says that in the manual anything about doing that, but I'll have a look if it does.

    I will also see if opening the hatch by walk-up and using the hatch handle also presents all handles... I don't think it does.
     
  12. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    When Auto-present is turned off... and all the handles are retracted..

    Here's what happens when you open the rear hatch

    1) by using the hatch pull - the hatch opens up and all handles present

    2) by double click on fob hatch area - the hatch opens up and all handles present


    So ... Tesla has over-achieved or mislabeled a function.
    The "open hatch" methods done from outside the car are really "open everything".

    And we can say "touching front handles or pulling rear hatch is a way to present all handles, but touching rear handles is not".

    Is this dumb design, or a user convenience, or a bug ? ... you decide.

    Knowing this is how it works, I choose to treat this bug as a convenience. When I have a flock of people descending on the car and a box in my arms to go in the trunk... and everybody wants in the car.. I know that a double press on the fob hatch while approaching the car satisfies everything. People can get in while I'm loading the trunk.
     
  13. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    Pop quiz.

    You're inside the car, and put it in Park. They handles present and finally retracted again after a timeout.

    Still sitting there in Park, you press "open rear hatch" button on the console.

    Do all doors handles present again, or just the hatch open?


    ...I'd say your guess has odds of being right pegged at about 50/50 chance


    Sub-quiz: What if the "lock" icon on console was in locked position prior to putting the car into Park, what would be the difference in car behavior for the scenario above?
     
  14. JimmyAZ

    JimmyAZ Member

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    The official Tesla statement on the rear door handles is that they do not auto-present. They're not programmed to do so - just the fronts. But I swear like you guys that I can walk up from the grocery store, tap the rear handle and only THEN will it present (meaning that they didn't do it just because I walked up to the car). So although I'm not sold on Tesla's response, that IS what they said. :)
     
  15. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    #15 scottm, Jun 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
    What statement are you referring to?

    Rear handles always auto-present along with front handles when auto-present is enabled and they come out by walking up with the fob.

    When auto-present is enabled sometimes you walk up to the car, and .... no presentment. In this case, you can touch any handle on the car and they all present. Even the rears.

    It's just when auto-present is switched OFF... you must touch the fronts to get them all to pop out. Touching the rears does nothing.
     
  16. JimmyAZ

    JimmyAZ Member

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    Sorry for the confusion. They definitely auto-present, but they aren't 'touch sensitive' like the front handles. At least that's what I was told by the Tesla Service Center in Scottsdale, AZ where I have my S serviced. I noticed when the front right handle needed replacing due to not presenting at all I also mentioned that the rears don't always present when touched. The employee stated very confidently that the rear handles do not present themselves by touch like the fronts - but rather auto-present upon locking/unlocking the doors only.
     
  17. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    But they are touch sensitive. When auto-present is enabled sometimes you walk up to the car, and .... no presentment. In this case, you can touch any handle on the car (even the rears) and they all present.
     
  18. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    #18 scottm, Jun 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
    We don't call using the fob buttons auto-presentment... that's just regular presentment.
    The "auto" part is when fob stays in pocket walking up to car.

    And handles never present when locking the car. They always hide (anti-present?).

    So handles all present when unlocking from the fob button (unless you have driver door only feature enabled).
    They also (usually) all auto-present when walk up feature is enabled, and you walk up to car with fob. Unless the car has grown tired of you teasing it by walking around it too much with fob in pocket... then it starts to ignore you and just keeps the handles in.
    They will present (when walk up feature is disabled) by touching a front handle but not a rear.
    They will present (when walk up feature is disabled) by opening the rear hatch.
     
  19. JimmyAZ

    JimmyAZ Member

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    Just telling you Tesla's official response to me on that.

    But I agree with you - they do appear to be touch sensitive too, right? Perhaps this person wasn't aware, but he sounded extremely confident when I asked him about it.
     
  20. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    I think Tesla's own people get confused as to when things work or might they not. Not blaming them... rules change on any given software release. And it's not like most employees suffer with a Tesla of their own as their daily driver to really get to know the nuances of when stuff works, or doesn't...

    This whole thread becomes moot when one day, a programmer decides things shouldn't work this way, and from now on.. touching rear handles will present all doors. There, done. Move on. That problem was so pre-June 2017 !!
     
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