Auto steer Not ready for prime time

[curtdose]

Model 3 doesn't do signs yet. The reason it would say 25 is because it is unsafe to do 65. What I do is manually, via thumb wheel, slow 5-10 under interstate speed to 55-60.

I know it can't read signs yet, but it still slows to 25 mph which is way to slow for this freeway interchange ramp. I've tried the speed change wheels and that works OK, but this is a very temporary speed reduction, then the car will accelerate back to freeway speeds. It is much easier and smoother to just add some "gas" to smoothly accelerate to 35 mph then back off the pedal as the intended speed ramps back up. This does not disconnect autopilot or NOA. Try it!

 

[Twiglett]

That's interesting as I have V9 in my M3 and definitely can set 4 levels of aggressiveness on lane change. What I will leave to others are the differences in a 2015 S vs current S, X, and 3 systems.

Those four levels only set how often it suggests lane changes for Navigate on Autopilot.
Changing from Mild to Mad Max just needs a smaller speed differential to trigger a lane change.

 

[claudelaval]

I am on a 30 day trial of the auto steer so I took the opportunity to try it out on a 700+ mile round trip from Phoenix to San Diego. The route is nearly all interstate 75mph in Az and 70mph in Ca. Observations:
1. The "put pressure on the wheel" occurs about 3x/mile a real pia
2. When you go by a ramp entering the freeway and you lose the right lane line the car will veer to the right trying to center itself in the temporary extra wide lane. Unsettling, especially for the passenger who is seeing the car move right toward the shoulder.
3. Lane change was the only real excitement of the trip. Sometimes the car would go into a wobble moving left then right over and over not knowing if it was safe to change lanes. Only way to stop it was grab wheel and disengage. The color of the lane marker seemed to set it off. One time this happened with freshly striped black asphalt. This alone was a deal breaker.
4. When it did successfully change lanes, I found the rate of change too fast. Not good for tire wear and uncomfortable for passengers.
5. Self steering was very good when not changing lanes as long as there were visible stripes on each side of the road.

Don't know if Tesla engineers monitor this site or data automatically uploads to Tesla when a failure occurs but these items need to be addressed. It's fun to try out these new features but there comes a point where you have to question using your customer base as beta testers.

I agree totally. Ask every 30 seconds to "slightly put pressure on the wheel" doesn't worth the hassle. It's not for tomorrow the day for "fully autonomous self driving"

 

[claudelaval]

I think the OP has pointed out legitimate issues that the current version of AP has... However as someone who's been driving on AP 2.0 for over a year and a half, this is by far the most mature version and it's way better than anything else you can get in a consumer vehicle.

I do really wish that Tesla would find a solution to the issue with the car trying to center on merge lanes where the dotted lines go away as you are driving in the right lane. This is by far my biggest issue when using Autopilot on a 2 lane highway. I either need to be in the fast lane, or in the slow lane and tolerate the car swerving to the right every time there's a merge lane.

This must be a difficult problem or have other unintended behaviors if fixed. Maybe they can have the B Pillar camera recognize that there is a merge lane there. I notice that NOA already starts showing and reacting to cars merging so the B pillar is doing this now, they just aren't using this as an input to avoid the lane splitting of the merge lane.

..."way better than anything else you can get in a consumer vehicle..."? Not what I read, The one by Cadillac doesn't need to have your hand on the wheel at all times like even Tesla ask you to do on their. True it doesn't work in all road but at this moment it is the real AP

 

[wcorey]

Wow, 96 occurances to TACC and exactly one reference to this. Thanks.

"Note: If your vehicle is not equipped with the optional Enhanced Autopilot or Full SelfDriving Capability package, refer to the owner's manual on your vehicle's touchscreen for instructions on how to use Cruise Control."​

Yeah...is that wild or what?

I agree totally. Ask every 30 seconds to "slightly put pressure on the wheel" doesn't worth the hassle. It's not for tomorrow the day for "fully autonomous self driving"

On my first week's worth of driving my M3, I'd almost agree with you re:reminder to be attentive. It doesn't ask me any more. It probably takes less than a lb of torque, maybe 1/2 lb. Hold wheel at 9 or 3 and just let the weight of your arm do it. easy peasy. Of course if you never actually wanted it but felt obligated to show your confirmation bias..that's completely different. There is one area that rightfully needs work. A left lane exit where the lane itself splits. Solution, before the split put your left turn signal on.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Thanks about that great turn signal tip. Driving on Autopilot is best done when the driver and car work together. Throwing it all of the Autopilot will not always work out well.

Seems like Autopilot works great...until it doesn't. It does the easy stuff well, but often gets confused in difficult situations. Guess it is still learning. (Even the Starship Enterprise sometimes has a hard time coming out of Warp

Cadillac system does not need hands on wheel, as it monitors drivers eyes to determine engagement. Tesla uses a tug on the wheen to determine that someone is still behind the wheel and alert.

Tesla did not always have nag. Came about when some clowns took pictures of themselves reading books in the back seat of eating huge sandwitches with both hands while autopilot engaged. That nobody was killed performing these pranks says a lot about the early autopilot.

 

[wcorey]

That nobody was killed performing these pranks says a lot about the early autopilot.

Ah, but there have been several. I haven't heard of anything so bold as being in back seat though. Some call it Nanny-state, I am sure the BoD of Tesla and GM call it saving a law suit.

 

[wcorey]

Thanks about that great turn signal tip. Driving on Autopilot is best done when the driver and car work together. Throwing it all of the Autopilot will not always work out well.

Seems like Autopilot works great...until it doesn't. It does the easy stuff well, but often gets confused in difficult situations. Guess it is still learning.

True, true, and true. There is one thing that puzzles me as there are two camps. I noticed NOA really wants me in left lane, nobody to pass, no exit for miles, just 'approve lane change please" even when doing 65, psss sometimes a tad faster. Others say it never does that to them. At first my response was 'if you say so', now I don't acknowledge change.

I am still on V9 .42, I'm looking for to see what's tweaked in .44.

 

[wcorey]

Cadillac system does not need hands on wheel, as it monitors drivers eyes to determine engagement. Tesla uses a tug on the wheen to determine that someone is still behind the wheel and alert.

Yes! I remember reading that too several months ago. Clever. Does it work through glasses or sun glasses?

 

[KSSB12]

I am on a 30 day trial of the auto steer so I took the opportunity to try it out on a 700+ mile round trip from Phoenix to San Diego. The route is nearly all interstate 75mph in Az and 70mph in Ca. Observations:
1. The "put pressure on the wheel" occurs about 3x/mile a real pia
2. When you go by a ramp entering the freeway and you lose the right lane line the car will veer to the right trying to center itself in the temporary extra wide lane. Unsettling, especially for the passenger who is seeing the car move right toward the shoulder.
3. Lane change was the only real excitement of the trip. Sometimes the car would go into a wobble moving left then right over and over not knowing if it was safe to change lanes. Only way to stop it was grab wheel and disengage. The color of the lane marker seemed to set it off. One time this happened with freshly striped black asphalt. This alone was a deal breaker.
4. When it did successfully change lanes, I found the rate of change too fast. Not good for tire wear and uncomfortable for passengers.
5. Self steering was very good when not changing lanes as long as there were visible stripes on each side of the road.

Don't know if Tesla engineers monitor this site or data automatically uploads to Tesla when a failure occurs but these items need to be addressed. It's fun to try out these new features but there comes a point where you have to question using your customer base as beta testers.

Yeah, I don't agree with the perception that Autosteer has to be perfect like, "right now". I use it at every opportunity, but I am paying attention to learn its limitations. It does require you to pay some attention to your driving and to the instances where the lane widens, such as highway entrances and exits, but that's why you are reminded to keep your hands on the wheel. It is not a "PITA" to me and does reduce the stress in my driving.

Having said that (BTW, I love my Model 3), the one thing I would like to see improved is the option, while Autosteer is engaged, to drive closer to either the left or right lane line instead of the middle of the lane. When I pass an 18-wheeler or other vehicle, I prefer to hug the side of the lane away from the other vehicle to give more room for safety. As a result, I disengage it when I feel the circumstances require and re-engage it when I am past the vehicle.

The are also times when I want to drive more aggressively than Autosteer does, so I will disengage it and handle things on my own. In my opinion, its ability to be turned on and off in an instant is absolutely amazing! I am responsible for making the decisions when I am driving and, for me, Autosteer supplements my driving; it does not take complete control.

Happy Holidays!

 

[Zenzation]

I think this is an instance of your expectations exceeding the capabilities of the car. There is also a learning curve associated with you and the car getting to know each other. I used to feel panic when the car veered to the right as I passed the on ramp, but now I know what the car is doing and it doesn't bother me. You have to get to know you car.

The "put pressure on the wheel" error message occurs every 30 seconds in mine (it was 60 seconds until a few more driver inattention accidents happened and Tesla tightened it down to 30) and I appreciate the warning. This is not an autonomous vehicle ... it is a driver assist vehicle. YOU are still the pilot in command. There have been times when my Tesla completely misses on what to do in an unpredictable situation or darts suddenly at shadows in the road. Nothing personal, but one would be have to be foolish not to have their hand on the wheel at all times. You want programmers driving your car? Not me. That's a recipe for getting killed.

You are right about the car moving to the right as you pass on ramps, but put yourself in the programmers seat. They don't know if that is an on ramp or a wide road. The cameras depend on a white line on both sides to center the vehicle. When these lines get farther apart, it centers between them. Do you want those programmers to guess which side you want the car to hug? What if it guesses wrong?

The wobble when it is lane changing is disconcerting and annoying to me too. Sometimes, for some unknown reason, it gets partially in the lane and then darts back to the lane you are leaving. Did it see a shadow? Did I not leave the blinker on long enough? However, this doesn't happen often and it is another reason I ALWAYS keep a hand on the wheel.

When I first got my Tesla, the rate of the lane change was way too fast. So much so that I would take it out of auto-steer each time. However, over time, it got better and now it makes the lane change smoothly and exactly as I would. If I have to dart in a lane because there are few gaps, I do it manually. Be patient on this feature ... it gets better over time.

I use auto-steer all the time, even on secondary roads. As a matter of fact, I feel insecure when I'm driving unassisted. After all, it is better to have eight cameras watching the road than just my two eyes. I like it when the computer programmers at Tesla are "helping" me, but I would never rely completely on this new technology where my life and safety are concerned. I certainly don't want to be caught watching Harry Potter when an 18 wheeler turns in front of me. Some Tesla drivers just do stupid stuff. As for me, I'm still fully in charge of the car, and I plan to keep it that way no matter how good auto-steer gets.

 

[wcorey]

Having said that (BTW, I love my Model 3), the one thing I would like to see improved is the option, while Autosteer is engaged, to drive closer to either the left or right lane line instead of the middle of the lane. When I pass an 18-wheeler or other vehicle, I prefer to hug the side of the lane away from the other vehicle to give more room for safety. As a result, I disengage it when I feel the circumstances require and re-engage it when I am past the vehicle.

The are also times when I want to drive more aggressively than Autosteer does, so I will disengage it and handle things on my own. In my opinion, its ability to be turned on and off in an instant is absolutely amazing! I am responsible for making the decisions when I am driving and, for me, Autosteer supplements my driving; it does not take complete control.

Could not agree more! I believe it will be a quick fix, programatically. You're right on the issue being widening lanes. As you said, I too, try to hug the inside lane marker in a turn. It could do the same or close in that it 'knows' the width of the lane by virtue of it's distance from the car. If the left and right distances are the same great, if they diverge it should pick one side and maintain the same distance, at least temporarily ignoring the diverging lane. For instance, in the real bug-a-boo case of a single lane entering a Y such that you exit left or exit right, if it knows you need to take the left exist, abandon the right marker and maintain distance from the left. Conversely, if you are going straight or bearing right, discard the left mark and maintain distance from the right lane marker. I 'get around that' by signalling a left or right turn in advance of the decision point. Or, as you said, flick the stalk up to release lane keep or NOA and negotiate the corner yourself. then dbl tap the stalk to re-engage. But this is merely learning where EAP will need help and providing it. I've had my M3 6 weeks now and, to be sure, I don't completely trust it to do the right thing but I know the scenarios where it will have trouble and provide guidance in those situations. In the areas where I do trust it, I am completely comfortable using it.

 

[JeffK]

I noticed for the first time two days ago that it had a hard time changing lanes to the right. It would attempt the lane change and then would attempt to swerve back for no apparent reason as if a car was there. People behind me probably thought I was a crazy person.

I had noticed on one of @verygreen's videos that the backup camera often mistakes glare for cars. Sure enough I went to look and my backup camera was dirty and specifically a few spots to the right. Before my next trip I cleaned off my backup camera lens and the car had no more trouble with lane changes to the right.

It is much easier and smoother to just add some "gas" to smoothly accelerate to 35 mph then back off the pedal as the intended speed ramps back up. This does not disconnect autopilot or NOA. Try it!

This only works sometimes... there's an interchange near me that is listed for 25 mph but that's mainly for semi trucks, cars do 35-45 mph on this curve. As I tried to accelerate more, autopilot (NoA) panicked and asked me to take over immediately.

 

[wcorey]

This only works sometimes... there's an interchange near me that is listed for 25 mph but that's mainly for semi trucks, cars do 35-45 mph on this curve. As I tried to accelerate more, autopilot (NoA) panicked and asked me to take over immediately.

I absolutely hate that "TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY" red box w/3 loud blares! Mine has done that a few times, literally for no apparent reason but I have a mini coronary every time...which is the intent as it detects imminent catastrophe.

 

[Glamisduner]

While I still like the feature AP no longer works well on my way to work due to the reflective paint they are now painting all the highways with. The paint is super bright at night and AP works well, but in the daytime the car can't pickup the lines since they are nearly the same color as the road depending on the angle with the sun. I have pretty much stopped using NoA all together as I find it easier to cancel autopilot to change lanes at least 80% of the time.

Also my wifes new volvo has an autopilot like setup and it reads speed limit signs, and it has a 360 camera. Guess tesla has some catching up to do there.

 

[swotam]

I was very impressed at how EAP handled heavy rain and heavy fog. There were instances where I could barely see. It was reassuring for me to have EAP in those situations.

Same here. I was driving home in the Toronto area at night last week and it was raining fairly hard. The combination of it being dark, the highway being wet and the orange-colored lights they use on the highways make it difficult to see the lane markers but EAP had no issues at all. Having only had the Model 3 for three weeks, I was quite impressed with how well it handled itself. I've also been very impressed with how it handles tight corners on the highway.

My hands were not heavy enough on the wheel so I had to grab the wheel- sometimes a little obnoxiously so. I tried auto pilot here and there and it was the same everytime. So to me, as a woman who may not be as heavy as some of you men, it was not worth it to me.

Not sure if this will help, but what setting do you have your Steering Mode set to? Perhaps switching it to Comfort might reduce the amount of resistance required, or make it easier for the wheel to sense your hands?

I agree that TACC is great, it works incredibly well.

Thanks about that great turn signal tip. Driving on Autopilot is best done when the driver and car work together. Throwing it all of the Autopilot will not always work out well.

Agree with this. People need to remember that these are all driver-assist features that are there to "assist" the driver, not replace the driver. In the few weeks that I've had my Model 3 I've taken the "let's see how EAP handles this" approach to various situations and am always prepared to take control if the car doesn't do what I expect it to do, want it to do, etc. I operate on the assumption that EAP will be OK, and if it isn't for some reason then I'll file that away in the "good to know" pile and remember for next time. For the most part, I've found autosteer, lane changing, and NOA to be very good, aside from the occasional things it doesn't handle as well. I've never felt that the car has done anything to put me in danger, so I can't complain.

 

[chronopc]

Agree with this. People need to remember that these are all driver-assist features that are there to "assist" the driver, not replace the driver. In the few weeks that I've had my Model 3 I've taken the "let's see how EAP handles this" approach to various situations and am always prepared to take control if the car doesn't do what I expect it to do, want it to do, etc. I operate on the assumption that EAP will be OK, and if it isn't for some reason then I'll file that away in the "good to know" pile and remember for next time. For the most part, I've found autosteer, lane changing, and NOA to be very good, aside from the occasional things it doesn't handle as well. I've never felt that the car has done anything to put me in danger, so I can't complain.

Couldn't agree more. EAP isn't perfect and there are definitely situations when the driver should take over. As a driver, you are responsible for understanding the limitations of your vehicle.

What impresses me most about EAP is how it's improved since I've gotten it. It's by far the best driver assist feature currently available and I'm very confident that it'll continue to get even better.

 

[wcorey]

Couldn't agree more. EAP isn't perfect and there are definitely situations when the driver should take over. As a driver, you are responsible for understanding the limitations of your vehicle.

I've never been big on ALL CAPS but that caution should come on every car sold, regardless of make and model!

 

[whatthe2]

True, true, and true. There is one thing that puzzles me as there are two camps. I noticed NOA really wants me in left lane, nobody to pass, no exit for miles, just 'approve lane change please" even when doing 65, psss sometimes a tad faster. Others say it never does that to them. At first my response was 'if you say so', now I don't acknowledge change.

I am still on V9 .42, I'm looking for to see what's tweaked in .44.

In 48.2, it has you get out of the passing lane.

 

[chronopc]

View attachment 364125
In 48.2, it has you get out of the passing lane.

There would be so much less traffic if people actually get out of the passing lane.