Auto window closing and app window control removed in the states. Hope it doesn't cross the pond.

[Billbrown1982]

Article popped up in my feed this morning. Tesla have had to remove a bunch of features to comply with federal regulations, namely windows closing on lock, closing windows via the app and windows closing in car wash mode.

They also can't close the windows using the door switches until the brake pedal has been pressed (with the key available)
I don't quite understand why it only seems to be a Tesla problem. I'd have to guess the pinch protection isn't up to snuff on the motors they have used or something.

I'd be FUMING if this feature suddenly disappeared overnight for me.

It might come back after a software fix but right now they don't seem to be overly positive about it.

 

[phil4]

That's a pretty big backwards step. My old 2018 VW golf let you open and close (entirely) the windows from the key, so even the vent/close bit that Tesla do sometimes is a fraction of that.

And the close without foot on the pedal and key, that's complete bobbins compared to other cars.

Fingers crossed it doesn't make it over here, as that last one alone will confuse a lot of people.

 

[Mullermn]

We have limitations on our cars that don't exist in the US (eg the types of moves that Autopilot can make) so it will be interesting to see how Tesla choose to handle this - a region specific limitation for the US, or a brand-wide change because 'screw everyone who isn't in the US'.

 

[andyf1140]

By the sound of it the Chinese consumers are very militant and would soon be demanding a refund if that happened...

 

[MrBadger]

I don't quite understand why it only seems to be a Tesla problem. I'd have to guess the pinch protection isn't up to snuff on the motors they have used or something.

It sounds like they couldn't comply with an earlier request by NHTSA to make their 'pinch protection' work properly so were told to limit their auto window functionality as a result. ie doesn't affect other manufacturers I believe, just Teslas implementation. Sounds a little like the auto boot open/close issue where Tesla could not get a reliable strut operation without making the auto stop detection less sensitive.

I believe some of the restrictions only relate to true remote operation, so when in close proximity (possibly bluetooth range) to the car then its less limited. I hope anyway as I like the window vent operation. Also some of the 'need to press the brake' seems to have been misunderstood by some sources.

 

[Roy B]

They also can't close the windows using the door switches until the brake pedal has been pressed

How does that work while you're driving? How does that work for passengers (while stationary or not)?

Maybe in the next refresh they can add an extra brake pedal to each passenger seat (including the rear seats) to enable passengers to close the windows. Although it could be a bit unnerving for the driver if a passenger unexpectedly brakes because they want to close their window....

 

[GRiLLA]

How does that work while you're driving? How does that work for passengers (while stationary or not)?

Maybe in the next refresh they can add an extra brake pedal to each passenger seat (including the rear seats) to enable passengers to close the windows. Although it could be a bit unnerving for the driver if a passenger unexpectedly brakes because they want to close their window....

'Pressing the brake' means the same as the car being turned on/ignition started.

 

[Billbrown1982]

How does that work while you're driving? How does that work for passengers (while stationary or not)?

Maybe in the next refresh they can add an extra brake pedal to each passenger seat (including the rear seats) to enable passengers to close the windows. Although it could be a bit unnerving for the driver if a passenger unexpectedly brakes because they want to close their window....

Yeah sorry as GRiLLA said, if you get in the car you have to hit the brake to activate it, get up pin to drive etc. THEN all the windows will work as normal for the duration of the drive.
Not sure what happens if you get out and leave someone inside. No access to windows I assume.

 

[BitJam]

It sounds like they couldn't comply with an earlier request by NHTSA to make their 'pinch protection' work properly so were told to limit their auto window functionality as a result. ie doesn't affect other manufacturers I believe, just Teslas implementation.

It's a new ruling that affects all manufacturers:

Tesla meets all current regulation. NHTSA used to allow to close windows with pressure monitoring sensors but they want more protections now. It will apply to all manufactures, not just Tesla.

View attachment 893380

This is why we can't have nice things. At least in the States.

 

[Billbrown1982]

So its a new ruling. So why do Tesla need to deactivate it from existing cars? What do manufacturers do that don't have the capability to remove something like this over the air?
If NEW cars have to follow the guidelines then sure I get that, but this just seems.....rubbish.

 

[pgkevet]

So its a new ruling. So why do Tesla need to deactivate it from existing cars? What do manufacturers do that don't have the capability to remove something like this over the air?
If NEW cars have to follow the guidelines then sure I get that, but this just seems.....rubbish.

Speculation- if the ruling is a safety feature and manufacturer has capability to adjust existing vehicles to follow that ruling then not doing so exposes them to suits should an accident occur.

 

[Jason71]

So its a new ruling. So why do Tesla need to deactivate it from existing cars? What do manufacturers do that don't have the capability to remove something like this over the air?
If NEW cars have to follow the guidelines then sure I get that, but this just seems.....rubbish.

OTA updates not so good now!
When Dieselgate happened i ignored the recall to gimp my Skoda VRS. Imagine Would not have been happy they could have done it OTA!

 

[KennethS]

It sounds like they couldn't comply with an earlier request by NHTSA to make their 'pinch protection' work properly so were told to limit their auto window functionality as a result. ie doesn't affect other manufacturers I believe, just Teslas implementation.

Where did you glean this from? I'd like to read the original source. Thanks

 

[MrBadger]

Where did you glean this from? I'd like to read the original source. Thanks

Not the original source, but for starters

Tesla ordered to recall more than a million US cars

The US car-safety watchdog says a window glitch is affecting all four Tesla models.

www.bbc.co.uk

There seems to be a 100N limit that needs to be adhered to that after the above recall still seems to not being met.

September 19, 2022 NHTSA CAMPAIGN NUMBER: 22V702000
Power Windows May Pinch/FMVSS 118
A closing window may exert excessive force by pinching a driver or passenger before retracting, increasing the risk of injury.

NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID: 22V702000
RECALL DATE: 2022-09-20

SUMMARY
Tesla, Inc. (Tesla) is recalling certain 2017-2022 Model 3, 2020-2022 Model Y, and 2021-2022 Model S and Model X vehicles. The window automatic reversal system may not react correctly after detecting an obstruction. As such, these vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard number 118, "Power-Operated Window Systems."

CONSEQUENCES
A closing window may exert excessive force by pinching a driver or passenger before retracting, increasing the risk of injury.

REMEDY
Tesla will perform an over-the-air (OTA) software update of the automatic window reversal system, free of charge. Interim owner notification letters, informing owners of the safety risk, were mailed November 18, 2022. A second notice will be sent one the remedy has been developed. Owners may contact Tesla customer service at 1-877-798-3752. Tesla's number for this recall is SB-22-00-013.

COMPONENT AFFECTED
VISIBILITYOWER WINDOW DEVICES AND CONTROLS

NOTES
Tesla, Inc.

And here are the official regulations for 118. Don’t look new to me (at least timeline says no changes since 2017) so possibly a restriction of no longer meeting the 100N reg as per above recall.

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[Jason71]

It is highly doubtful that a new regulation would be applied retrospectively. Would not be fair or practical. I would assume the reg was always there and Tesla have been found in violation of it.

 

[BitJam]

I linked to a post with the new regulations above. Here they are again:

 

[MrBadger]

I linked to a post with the new regulations above. Here they are again:

View attachment 894130

But according to the timeline of 118, they are not new regulations and have been in force since at least 2017 so looks like S5 applies if closing force is within 100N which is possibly why S4 is now applicable and hence a recall rather than just new cars.

 

[BitJam]

But according to the timeline of 118, they are not new regulations and have been in force since at least 2017 so looks like S5 applies if closing force is within 100N which is possibly why S4 is now applicable and hence a recall rather than just new cars.

Thanks for the correction!

 

[MrBadger]

Where did you glean this from? I'd like to read the original source. Thanks

I just spoke to Elon and he said that Tesla are now using the Tesla vision and occupancy network to detect if any obstacles are occupying the window opening space so are no longer meeting the 100N rule.





No, not really... no idea what the official reason is other than the official evidence (recall and regulations) presented.

 

[GRiLLA]

I can't see how this won't equally apply to us, the UNECE Regulation 21 is pretty much word for word the same as the NHTSA requirements.

Regulation No 21 of the Economic Commission for Europe of the United Nations (UN/ECE) — Uniform provisions concerning the approval of vehicles with regard to their interior fittings - Publications Office of the EU

Details of the publication

op.europa.eu

None of this is new regulations, as observed above it would seem that Tesla have failed to comply with the Auto-Reversing requirements despite thinking they had, so now have to apply the more restrictive controls. If another manufacturer had the same they would need to recall all the vehicles to correct the failure.