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Auto Wipers on 2020.4.1 - Not working at all?

Can37

Member
May 11, 2019
152
229
Picton, Ontario
I have just returned to Ontario on a long road trip. I upgraded to 2020.4.1 in New Orleans and headed back to Ottawa the the next day. Over the 3 day trip I encountered precipitation of all types, from warm drizzle through tropical thunderstorms. Moving north we had just rain, then wet snow and finished off with squalls and snow storms as I got close to home.

Throughout this journey, auto wipers failed to work. In heavy rain, it might decide to wipe at the lowest setting, most of the time the wipers just sat there. I rebooted the car a couple of times, but that did not make a difference. I did an experiment on a empty stretch of road and waited to see how long it would take for the wipers to activate. it took a few seconds of no forward view before I got one lazy wipe. I used manual wipe for most of the journey and my finger got tired hitting the stalk.

I had given up all hope of any auto action when the wipers suddenly started working but that only lasted for about 20 seconds.

How in 2020 is this *sugar* acceptable? I tried to raise a bug report, but that no longer seems to work. My car is going in to the service center on Monday for battery vents, I will bring this up and make sure it gets documented.
 

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,601
1,657
Kitchener, Ontario
How old Is your car. ?
Have they always not worked, or just to not work?
The car is run by software, as is everything tech related BECAUSE it’s 2020. :)
Software has glitches. That’s an unfortunate reality of new advancements in 2020.
I see people on here deal out over a software issue and wonder why they bought a product, (a new tech product) that runs on software when they have zero tolerance for software issues. ?

Not saying this isn’t all frustrating. Sounds like it is, but have some tolerance with your expectations is my suggestion.
 

Can37

Member
May 11, 2019
152
229
Picton, Ontario
How old Is your car. ?
Have they always not worked, or just to not work?
The car is run by software, as is everything tech related BECAUSE it’s 2020. :)
Software has glitches. That’s an unfortunate reality of new advancements in 2020.
I see people on here deal out over a software issue and wonder why they bought a product, (a new tech product) that runs on software when they have zero tolerance for software issues. ?

Not saying this isn’t all frustrating. Sounds like it is, but have some tolerance with your expectations is my suggestion.

My car was built in June 2019. I have had other cars with auto wipers over the last 10 years, my e-Golf has a great system, works well all the time. Tesla's approach to auto wipers seems to be flawed - the cameras are not able to see the rain in all lighting conditions and poorly done, if you are warning me that the front camera is blinded, how about turning on the wipers? Volkswagen and other companies have working wipers, we need to hold Tesla to the same standard. Cars have always been tech products, we should expect that tech to improve over time, stepping back to 1970's style auto wipers does not seem to be progress.
 

DrtyJrze

Member
Nov 10, 2019
479
639
USA
My car was built in June 2019. I have had other cars with auto wipers over the last 10 years, my e-Golf has a great system, works well all the time. Tesla's approach to auto wipers seems to be flawed - the cameras are not able to see the rain in all lighting conditions and poorly done, if you are warning me that the front camera is blinded, how about turning on the wipers? Volkswagen and other companies have working wipers, we need to hold Tesla to the same standard. Cars have always been tech products, we should expect that tech to improve over time, stepping back to 1970's style auto wipers does not seem to be progress.

Yea...mine work.
 

kayaker

Member
Jul 24, 2018
58
31
HALIFAX
My car was built in June 2019. I have had other cars with auto wipers over the last 10 years, my e-Golf has a great system, works well all the time. Tesla's approach to auto wipers seems to be flawed - the cameras are not able to see the rain in all lighting conditions and poorly done, if you are warning me that the front camera is blinded, how about turning on the wipers? Volkswagen and other companies have working wipers, we need to hold Tesla to the same standard. Cars have always been tech products, we should expect that tech to improve over time, stepping back to 1970's style auto wipers does not seem to be progress.
mine work. M3 LR RWD 20.4.1
 

super20g

Member
Jun 28, 2018
911
601
United States
Mine failed to work at all in heavy rain the other day. I had to switch to manual. Switched back to auto and they still didn't work. Eventually they started working again at a later date or after deep sleeping or something. I don't know when they started working again. Not safe.. The car has been out for about 3 years now, why are there still issues with auto wipers? Auto wipers on my 10+ yr old cars have never failed once...
 
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M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,601
1,657
Kitchener, Ontario
My car was built in June 2019. I have had other cars with auto wipers over the last 10 years, my e-Golf has a great system, works well all the time. Tesla's approach to auto wipers seems to be flawed - the cameras are not able to see the rain in all lighting conditions and poorly done, if you are warning me that the front camera is blinded, how about turning on the wipers? Volkswagen and other companies have working wipers, we need to hold Tesla to the same standard. Cars have always been tech products, we should expect that tech to improve over time, stepping back to 1970's style auto wipers does not seem to be progress.

Again, other auto mfg wipers are not like Tesla’s. You seem to think they are. Holding a completely new vehicle, with a new company, with new tech, to the same standards as auto makers that have been doing it for many decades is exactly the point I was trying to make, that you clearly have no tolerance for new tech.

Many smart phones that have been around for almost two decades, still have glitches, but have improved immensely.

In about 2-3 years, you will find most car tech, will also work much better.

I wonder again, why you made the decision to buy new tech, from a new company in this industry, with such low tolerance for any software issues, and wanting the car to behave flawlessly as a mfg that has been around for many decades. You could have waited a few years, for most bugs to be gone.
I think you’ve either made a bad judgement call, or may need to adjust your expectations. Otherwise, you’re going to be tormented daily by every software glitch that comes along. There will be more. ...
But it will improve. As it has been doing. hang in there, lower your pain threshold for glitches that they are working on, and enjoy the features and benefits the car offers over other cars, and you’ll be happier. :)
 
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super20g

Member
Jun 28, 2018
911
601
United States
Again, other auto mfg wipers are not like Tesla’s. You seem to think they are. Holding a completely new vehicle, with a new company, with new tech, to the same standards as auto makers that have been doing it for many decades is exactly the point I was trying to make, that you clearly have no tolerance for new tech.

Many smart phones that have been around for almost two decades, still have glitches, but have improved immensely.

In about 2-3 years, you will find most car tech, will also work much better.

I wonder again, why you made the decision to buy new tech, from a new company in this industry, with such low tolerance for any software issues, and wanting the car to behave flawlessly as a mfg that has been around for many decades. You could have waited a few years, for most bugs to be gone.
I think you’ve either made a bad judgement call, or may need to adjust your expectations. Otherwise, you’re going to be tormented daily by every software glitch that comes along. There will be more. ...
But it will improve. As it has been doing. hang in there, lower your pain threshold for glitches that they are working on, and enjoy the features and benefits the car offers over other cars, and you’ll be happier. :)

I don't know about others, but I do expect my auto wipers to just work and the only screen in the car not to reboot while I am driving... while backing up the last time it happened. I like new tech, yes, but you don't have to accept buggy tech. That is for the beta testers, not once the releases go across the whole fleet. The car has been out for about 3 years now. I missed in the literature from Tesla how I would have to deal with these issues that have been solved for many moons by every other mfg. :/
 

camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,106
Vernon, BC, Canada
Again, other auto mfg wipers are not like Tesla’s. You seem to think they are. Holding a completely new vehicle, with a new company, with new tech, to the same standards as auto makers that have been doing it for many decades is exactly the point I was trying to make, that you clearly have no tolerance for new tech.

Many smart phones that have been around for almost two decades, still have glitches, but have improved immensely.

In about 2-3 years, you will find most car tech, will also work much better.

I wonder again, why you made the decision to buy new tech, from a new company in this industry, with such low tolerance for any software issues, and wanting the car to behave flawlessly as a mfg that has been around for many decades. You could have waited a few years, for most bugs to be gone.
I think you’ve either made a bad judgement call, or may need to adjust your expectations. Otherwise, you’re going to be tormented daily by every software glitch that comes along. There will be more. ...
But it will improve. As it has been doing. hang in there, lower your pain threshold for glitches that they are working on, and enjoy the features and benefits the car offers over other cars, and you’ll be happier. :)

I cannot disagree with you more.

In early Tesla days ("a new company"), they did actually have better auto wipers on the Model S. Why? Because they used the same sensor everyone has been using for years, and it works quite well.

Why can't we hold them to the standards of what has worked very well for over a decade? Keep in mind this includes the fact that they previously had good auto wipers. The point of improvement is to improve, not get complacent about things getting worse and state it's unfair to expect them to do well.

No bad judgement was made on the customer part. Tesla had a perfectly fine reputation for this in the early years because they didn't decide to reinvent it themselves, then struggle to do so.

The only bad judgement was Tesla abandoning a working sensor for a system that is far, far from being on par with the old method.

EDIT: Forgot to add I've experienced this same problem once. Cameras were a bit dirty, but nothing that isn't normal for wet winter driving. It worked better on the next drive, but never great.
 

Can37

Member
May 11, 2019
152
229
Picton, Ontario
The only bad judgement was Tesla abandoning a working sensor for a system that is far, far from being on par with the old method.
I think removing the stalk controls at the same time plays to this too. If there was a stalk, I would be back to a car with working manual wipers and this would be less of an issue. Using the screen to control the wipers is a pain and unsafe as you really need this when AP has given up due to the weather.

Tesla is not a new company and they have chosen to use the cameras for rain sensing and so far it is far from reliable. They are now left with trying to fix this in software, which may or may not be do-able, all for the sake of deleting a $5 sensor.

Although there is a sentiment that Tesla can do know wrong and we should accept what we get when we get it, this does Tesla no favors. We need to hold Tesla to account to help them improve their products.
 

camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,106
Vernon, BC, Canada
I think removing the stalk controls at the same time plays to this too. If there was a stalk, I would be back to a car with working manual wipers and this would be less of an issue. Using the screen to control the wipers is a pain and unsafe as you really need this when AP has given up due to the weather.

Tesla is not a new company and they have chosen to use the cameras for rain sensing and so far it is far from reliable. They are now left with trying to fix this in software, which may or may not be do-able, all for the sake of deleting a $5 sensor.

Although there is a sentiment that Tesla can do know wrong and we should accept what we get when we get it, this does Tesla no favors. We need to hold Tesla to account to help them improve their products.

It certainly does. A potentially valid criticism of your actions may be that you resorted to bopping the stalk button constantly instead of selecting the speed on the display. However, I'm in the same boat as you -- I bop the button constantly because that's far easier for me to maintain eyes on the road with the tactile control. I also find that the lowest speed is too frequent for many cases. One can hope that they're using the stalk button for training their network instead of just the screen-based speed selections that we don't use.

Things like this issue are why we our next EV probably won't be another Tesla, unless they make things right again. The driver experience was degraded in favour of an autonomy experience that 1) doesn't yet exist and 2) can't exist during some seasons.

If Tesla makes an even cheaper EV, perhaps it'll lose "smart" things like auto wipers, instead having manual stalk controls again. I'd happily welcome that and would even prefer it. (We bought a Model 3 because it was the best AWD EV I could find at the most reasonable price, not because it has all these autonomy features).
 

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,601
1,657
Kitchener, Ontario
I cannot disagree with you more.

In early Tesla days ("a new company"), they did actually have better auto wipers on the Model S. Why? Because they used the same sensor everyone has been using for years, and it works quite well.

Why can't we hold them to the standards of what has worked very well for over a decade? Keep in mind this includes the fact that they previously had good auto wipers. The point of improvement is to improve, not get complacent about things getting worse and state it's unfair to expect them to do well.

No bad judgement was made on the customer part. Tesla had a perfectly fine reputation for this in the early years because they didn't decide to reinvent it themselves, then struggle to do so.

The only bad judgement was Tesla abandoning a working sensor for a system that is far, far from being on par with the old method.

EDIT: Forgot to add I've experienced this same problem once. Cameras were a bit dirty, but nothing that isn't normal for wet winter driving. It worked better on the next drive, but never great.

So in early days as you state, they had the same wiper tech as everyone else.
They CHANGED it for a reason. cost, control, future iterations, change.
If you want old tech, no progress, and no change, you bought the wrong car.

The thing is, change, is going to happen.
If you want to be part of it, you really need to have some tolerance for the challenges that go with it.
If you have known tolerance for imperfection, you could have decided to wait a few years, then jump in on a computer on wheels when tech is more stable.
 

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,601
1,657
Kitchener, Ontario
So just to be clear, it is my fault the wipers, a 110 year old technology don't work on my car?

Yikes.
You’re either not reading what I’ve said, or you’re completely missing the message.
Either way, you clearly don’t want to do anything except whine about the wipers.

I would take the car back and demand old tech back in there. If they don’t comply, I would sue them big time, or sell your car.

Problem fixed.
 

Mtbuonocore

Member
Jan 4, 2020
6
1
New Jersey
Same issue for me. 2019 dual motor on newest software. On auto they work whenever they want, regardless of precipitation. Sometimes there is minimal to none and it goes full speed, wildly. I either use the stalk or set to manual.
 
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camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,106
Vernon, BC, Canada
Adding another interesting experience...

Way back in the "non-neural-network" days of auto wipers (last summer), we took it to the drive in theatre. Yes, they still exist. One of the things someone else on these forums noted was that you need to turn the wipers off, because on auto they'll fire every once in a while (perhaps 2-5 times during a movie). We forgot about that and it did indeed happen.

I'd notice this in parking lots too. Have a habit of just chilling in the car and talking to people whilst digital signs and passing headlights do their thing. Sometimes this would trigger the auto wipers on an absolutely dry night.

Fast-forward to today with the fancy neural net for the wipers. It does the exact same thing at night. Once in a while when every thing is dry but there's lights dancing, the wipers will trigger. I am so not convinced anything has actually fundamentally changed. Maybe Canadian cars didn't get the fancy neural net version of wipers, or maybe this camera-based system is just bound to be this way no matter what the underlying approach is.
 

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