Autocross- SCCA EV-X Class vs. SS

[RacerChris]

We are starting to see some of the results from the Nationals rolling in and it looks like the crazy classing for the Tesla is hurting it quite a bit. In SS, the fastest M3 did a combined time of 120.2. The fastest BS cars were in the low 116 (or 115 if you count the winner)...Looks like it wouldn't have been the worst thing to keep it in BS (though I know it is probably not very fair on some courses). ASP is also looking like an uphill battle - Kudos too all the M3 drivers for giving it their all though. I'm definitely wishing I was there!

 

[SK360]

We are starting to see some of the results from the Nationals rolling in and it looks like the crazy classing for the Tesla is hurting it quite a bit. In SS, the fastest M3 did a combined time of 120.2. The fastest BS cars were in the low 116 (or 115 if you count the winner)...Looks like it wouldn't have been the worst thing to keep it in BS (though I know it is probably not very fair on some courses). ASP is also looking like an uphill battle - Kudos too all the M3 drivers for giving it their all though. I'm definitely wishing I was there!

Yeah... as expected, buried. My boycott of giving the SCCA money continues... lol

 

[gearchruncher]

Is the Model 3 in SS a performance car?
They show "Model 3 Performance" for many other Model 3's, but not the one car in SS (And One car in ASP is missing it too).

That track must be pretty detrimental to the Model 3. I've run at the same local events as Ron Bauer (second in SS) and can run within 1.5 seconds of him on a 50 second course (and I'm not that good).

 

[MountainPass]

I only have one race (it went very well) on my setup and the car was fantastic. I went a little stiffer than the low-grip setting (a couple of clicks), with the front end one or two clicks softer than the rear end. My last race was on asphalt with my 265-width tires. I am going to go stiffer as grip increases. This weekend for example will be asphalt but I have some bigger tires. I'm glad you asked this question - I have planned on posting some settings after I get a couple more races in on different surface types!

Please do share your settings!

 

[RacerChris]

Is the Model 3 in SS a performance car?
They show "Model 3 Performance" for many other Model 3's, but not the one car in SS (And One car in ASP is missing it too).

That track must be pretty detrimental to the Model 3. I've run at the same local events as Ron Bauer (second in SS) and can run within 1.5 seconds of him on a 50 second course (and I'm not that good).

So my observation from watching a couple of videos of the layout - These courses definitely didn't cater to the acceleration of our cars; The speed was in the range of 40-60ish the whole time (it did not look like there were any digs at all) with a lot of slaloms. Looked rough!

 

[RacerChris]

Please do share your settings!

Absolutely! I just checked and was running 5/5 for the front, and 4/4 for the rear (clicks from full stiff). I am thinking of keeping that for this next race on asphalt (will be lower speed and probably somewhat dirty surface). For higher traction concrete, I am probably going to go 4/4 and 3/3 as a baseline.

 

[superflyrolla]

West Tuesday:

East Wednesday:

 

[GAGT]

We are starting to see some of the results from the Nationals rolling in and it looks like the crazy classing for the Tesla is hurting it quite a bit. In SS, the fastest M3 did a combined time of 120.2. The fastest BS cars were in the low 116 (or 115 if you count the winner)...Looks like it wouldn't have been the worst thing to keep it in BS (though I know it is probably not very fair on some courses). ASP is also looking like an uphill battle - Kudos too all the M3 drivers for giving it their all though. I'm definitely wishing I was there!

Gosh this is such a hard topic with so many ifs and buts but.... Nationally we won't be competitive in SS (I think ASP is still out to be determined). As someone stated national courses are usually 40-60 mph sections and of course slaloms which is a huge disadvantage with our weight and lack of camber. Even more so the talent at national events is full SECONDS faster, just look at your local region and who went to nationals who are fast for your area and you compare yourself to only to see them get gapped at nationals.. what does that mean for you? Driver skill is still 90% of the game and having the top 5 cars for the class as well as the "correct" tire is the other 9%.

Locally you'll still have a blast while being at the top but this just isn't a national car unless you are a national driver. I'm not top 10 pax in my region but I just need to take 2nd at this next event and I will win our street class(we have a pro class too). We utilize an old run way that we get similar to national layouts. These people who are paxing over me are mid pack at nationals... So I obviously have some skills to work on so I got a Miata to run in E-street next year to work on my driving skill and not buy 2 sets of thousand dollar tires. Oh and not waking up at 5am to get to the charger and event on time thank god but I for sure will miss that torque on the course.

 

[gearchruncher]

Driver skill is still 90% of the game and having the top 5 cars for the class as well as the "correct" tire is the other 9%.

I mean, sure, anyone can drive a car slow, but once you're any good, the car matters a lot more than 9%... The first second of gap in SS class is:

NSX, GT4, GT4, GT3, NSX, GT3, GT3, GT4 (all current models, 2018 or newer)

I really doubt if you put any of those drivers in a SS Model 3, they would have run within a second of their times. Every year there is always a dominant car (or few) and if you don't have that, you flat out don't have a chance. The Model 3 sure is a fun, affordable, all around car though and the fact that it's questionable if it should be up against those kinds of $120k+, dedicated sports cars says a lot.

Here's to hoping the SCCA really takes the EVX class further ASAP. The logical upgrades it allows such as camber and coilovers could make a really competitive, fun class that sets them up for the future (which Porsche already agrees is electric).

 

[Dallas J]

2nd in SS was a 2010 GT3 uncharacteristically cleanly driven by James Yom... lol. (Hes always fast, just often dirty).

But agreed the M3P is full on buried. ASP is the most likely place to compete but a top tier builder/driver is going to be needed to keep up with the RX7 and Evos. And even then, its still course dependent. Even with the weight distribution and CG height, its still an extra 1000lbs to manage.

Tesla also needs a good clutch diff option for the rear if it wants to maximize its potential.

 

[RacerChris]

Hopefully the EVX class will be a National class before the Electric Porsche 718's come out (I have a feeling those will be very tough to beat - And probably a true fit for SS as well)

 

[Dallas J]

In a reasonable world we'd get Model S and 718 in SS, Model 3P in AS, Model 3 LR in BS maybe(?), and EVX as a dumping ground for everything modded like CAM.

The future is electric, but they're scared to upset the status quo while offerings are pretty slim. Though I don't see why when most classes are pretty much 1 or 2 overdogs and the rest also-rans.

 

[gearchruncher]

In a reasonable world we'd get Model S and 718 in SS

You think a Model S would be any kind of contender in SS? It's huge. I've never seen a Model S come anywhere near to a Model 3 at an AutoX.

 

[Dallas J]

You think a Model S would be any kind of contender in SS? It's huge. I've never seen a Model S come anywhere near to a Model 3 at an AutoX.

I certainly dont, Model S is yuuuuge. But some are claiming the plaid could contend (I'm not one). It is similar in size to the Taycan, but Porsche knows how to sports car.

 

[gearchruncher]

Well, while the Taycan is in SS too, has anyone AutoX'd one and shown it's competitive at all? There's a lot of cars in SS that are completely non-competitive today.

 

[SK360]

In a reasonable world we'd get Model S and 718 in SS, Model 3P in AS, Model 3 LR in BS maybe(?), and EVX as a dumping ground for everything modded like CAM.

The future is electric, but they're scared to upset the status quo while offerings are pretty slim. Though I don't see why when most classes are pretty much 1 or 2 overdogs and the rest also-rans.

OMG YOU CAN'T TOUCH AS!!!?!?!?!? That's a sacred Corvette class!!!!

 

[gearchruncher]

That's a sacred Corvette class!!!!

Excuse me, Front Engine Corvette Class. Those C8's need not apply
Makes you wonder where they are going to put the E-ray corvettes- 500HP gas, 200 HP electric, AWD!

Did it rain or something? The AS cars ran 7 seconds slower on Thursday than the SS cars on Tuesday. The fastest AS was 4 seconds slower than the SS Model 3.

 

[superflyrolla]

Excuse me, Front Engine Corvette Class. Those C8's need not apply
Makes you wonder where they are going to put the E-ray corvettes- 500HP gas, 200 HP electric, AWD!

Did it rain or something? The AS cars ran 7 seconds slower on Thursday than the SS cars on Tuesday. The fastest AS was 4 seconds slower than the SS Model 3.

I think you’re looking at the wrong results. There’s two different courses and your best times get added together.

 

[gearchruncher]

Sure enough. I know they add- I just thought I was looking at West only for both classes.
The fastest C8 did beat the fastest AS by a fair amount, so clearly the C8 shouldn't be in AS

 

[Dallas J]

You cant really compare M3P results in SS because, and nothing against them, the guys driving them likely arent top tier drivers. And the top of SS is a list of who's who in national AutoX.

Its a chicken and egg issue as usual, fastest guys will mostly stick with cars that can win and not waste time trying to build data.

But the scaling of the results in SS, AS, and BS are somewhat appropriate this year. Here are top to half way thru trophies (there are too many trophies at nats IMO)

SS - 112.0 - 113-2
AS - 114.0 - 115.6
BS - 115.6 - 117.9

And quickest tesla was 120.2. Not even in the trophies of these classes so probably not a fully representative look at the potential.